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Creo 4.0 - component selection

mcestnik
Amethyst

Creo 4.0 - component selection

Hello everyone!

 

I have a problem understanding the selection filter in Creo 4.0 assembly mode. By default the filter (in assembly) is set to geometry and I was wondering If anyone has an explanation - Why did they implemented this change?

What is the benefit?

Why would anyone want to select geometry on assembly level?

 

I couldn’t find any benefits but I did notice that this change caused an increase in number of clicks for most basic operations ( like component selection ).

For example in Creo 3.0 if I wanted to select and activate a component that was on the inside of an assembly ( behind other components).
Clicks:


Right mouse button (until desired component is highlighted)

Left mouse button to select the desired component

Right mouse button - Activate

 

Creo 4.0
Clicks:


Select selection filter

Change the selection filter to part

Right mouse button (until desired component is highlighted)

Left mouse button to select the desired component

Right mouse button - Activate

Select selection filter

Change the selection filter to geometry

 

 

I know that with holding the Alt key I can bypass geometry filter. But the problem is that pressing and holding the alt key selects (FEATURE or part). So when holding the alt key and pressing right mouse button first all features are highlighted and then at the end componets are highlighted. So instead of just a click or two it can happen that I have to click more than 40 times + (depends on the complexity of the part) to select a desired component…

I also tried to define my own selection filter ( in file – options – selection ) and added only part to my filter. At first that seems to work fine, but it causes “problems” in other areas. For example activating a component in an assembly still leaves the selection filter on “my filter” ( part ) so I have to change the filter back to geometry to edit a part feature…

Any thoughts on this subject?
Is there a way to change the behavior in assembly mode back to the way that it was in Creo 3.0 ( without recording mapkeys)?

Is there a way to set option that with pressed ALT key only components are highlighted ( without features)?

 

Short video showing component selection in Creo 4.0:

 

Video Link : 7526

35 REPLIES 35

Re: Creo 4.0 - component selection

I haven't played with it yet, but it might be related to this:

Improve selection sequence

It wouldn't surprise me if they tried to fix one thing and broke another.

Re: Creo 4.0 - component selection

It seems that product idea for improving selection filter that is posted above was taken into account.
Selection of geometry on part level is improved  - the selection start with the first thing under the mouse and then shows items as they would be encounterd moving through the model ( surfaces first ).

The problem is that the same selection filter is set in assembly mode. Who would want to select geometry on assembly model and for that sacrifice component selection with right mouse button?

Re: Creo 4.0 - component selection

You can setup your own filter with whatever filter selections you want and then set that as the default:

Capture.PNG

Re: Creo 4.0 - component selection

Thank you for your answer, but as I wrote in original message:

"I also tried to define my own selection filter ( in file – options – selection ) and added only part to my filter. At first that seems to work fine, but it causes “problems” in other areas. For example activating a component in an assembly still leaves the selection filter on “my filter” ( part ) so I have to change the filter back to geometry to edit a part feature…

So if I activate a component in an assembly - with my own filter (part) it stays set on "my filter". In Creo 3.0 if I activated a component it changed to smart and it was easy to pick geometry.
Now in Creo 4.0 it is necessary to set filter back to geometry or bypass it by pressing the ALT key.

Re: Creo 4.0 - component selection

I don't have Creo 4.0, but I used the pre-release beta.

There was new way to click on an edge in the component, and a menu popped up.  One of the items shown in this menu was "hierarchy tree" that showed the edge, its parent feature above that, then the feature's parent above that, etc.., up until the component.  Am I wrong in thinking you could use this to activate the component?

Re: Creo 4.0 - component selection

You are right and this works great for components that are on the outside (external components) of the assembly.
But if the assembly has internal components it is very hard to select an edge or any other geometry element on that internal component - in this case hierarchy tree sadly doesn't help...

Re: Creo 4.0 - component selection

Have you tried opening a case to see if this is intended functionality?

If so then I would suggest you open up a product idea.

Re: Creo 4.0 - component selection

The case was opened ( Case Details: 13543125 ). I am waiting for their response...

Re: Creo 4.0 - component selection

Any news on the issue? I have the same complaints as you. For now I've defined my own filter as part, activation requires either I reset it or start diving into the model tree...

Re: Creo 4.0 - component selection

Yesterday after two months of waiting I got the response:

"

The Case is under investigation and I'll get back to you ASAP.

"

So for now there are no new news on this topic. My questions for tech support were:

  1. Selection filter in Creo 4.0 assembly mode is by default (in assembly) set to geometry. Why was this change implemented? What are the benefits?
  2. What is the recommended procedure for selecting internal components (in graphic window) in a Creo 4.0 assembly?
  3. Is there a way to change selection functionality back to as it was in Creo 3.0? If not yet, are there any plans?
  4. Pressing the ALT key while selecting components selects features or parts (features have priority). Is there a way to change the priority so components would be first to highlight?
  5. Setting my own default filter and adding only part to selection does the trick. But when activating a component while filter is set to »my filter« (part), filter stays set to »my filter« and only component is available for selection. Is there a way to set that the filter while activating a component would change to component level filter. If not yet, are there any plans?

Re: Creo 4.0 - component selection

I haven't used Creo 4 much yet, I'm curious - do you have highlighting on or off? 

Prior to Creo 4 that changed the default selection methodology.  With it on, you'd get the "smart" filter which, in part mode, highlighted features first and then, once a feature was selected, would highlight geometry.  In assy mode, it highlighted parts and then once a part was selected, geometry would highlight.

With prehighlighting off the smart filter wasn't available and I'm not sure what the default selection order is as I rarely use it.

--
Doug Schaefer | Experienced Mechanical Design Engineer
LinkedIn

Re: Creo 4.0 - component selection

The smart filter has been removed from Creo 4.  I will try to find the documentation....

Re: Creo 4.0 - component selection

Hi Matevz & All,

The change in selection paradigm in assembly Creo 4 was intended.

The reasons for that are several ones.

- The desire to allow both future creation and editing which can be achieved today (Creo 4)  with geometry selection, the mini toolbar and the dual context.

- Pre-selection highlight issues that were raised by a lot of users on having parts as the default selection filter in assembly.
(I've heard of a lot of users that turned off pre-selection highlight before Creo 4)

I do agree that in some cases, if you want to query into the model by parts, the current default filter would be less efficient and that's is why you can either switch to a part filter or use Alt (which I know has a lot of other selectable objects)

What if we do the following changes?

- Make in assembly Alt+LMB select only parts

This will allow easier access to parts but will require switch to feature filter (as before for feature selection in graphics).

Thanks,

Eyal Chaki

Technical Fellow, Creo User Experience

Re: Creo 4.0 - component selection

Hello Eyal Chaki!

What if we do the following changes?

- Make in assembly Alt+LMB select only parts

This will allow easier access to parts but will require switch to feature filter (as before for feature selection in graphics).


I totally support this change and I think that suggested change would solve all the inconveniences with query into models by parts.
Probably most of ( if not even all ) other Creo users would agree with me.


Matevz

Re: Creo 4.0 - component selection

Eyal Chaki‌, I think it's important to minimize the number of situations where multiple simultaneous key presses are required to accomplish a single action.  (Think drawing dimensions, measure tool, etc.)  Many of our users have mapped the CTRL and ALT buttons directly onto their mice so they don't have to keep their second hand on the keyboard.  With Creo 4 it has become increasingly difficult to get the correct buttons pressed.  For example, in order to select multiple components from an assembly they need to hold down two buttons (ALT + CTRL) plus right click to toggle until each part highlights.  In the past they just needed to hold down one button (CTRL.)  We also have a similar issue with those who use 3D mice.  They like to keep their left hands on the 3D mouse all the time but more and more are being required to lift their left hand and move it back to the keyboard.  I'm not sure if someone with only one hand could really even use Creo anymore...

Re: Creo 4.0 - component selection

I'm not sure if someone with only one hand could really even use Creo anymore...

Maybe that should be part of the internal usability testing.  Give the testers a standard 3-button mouse, tie one of their arms behind their back, and then see how they do at modeling, creating drawings, measuring, etc.  Is it even possible to do all the normal tasks (without customizing the mouse or the interface?)

Re: Creo 4.0 - component selection

I agree with Tom. In my opinion the "old" functionality with smart filter and no multiple keys was way better.

But in this situation if I had to choose between pressing the alt key to query select into parts or change the filter manually every time and then change it back, I would choose the extra alt key...

Re: Creo 4.0 - component selection

@EyalChaki Can a selection ORDER be added to the filter definition?  I think this would help.

 

Also, STOP ADDING CLICKS/KEYSTROKES TO OPERATIONS! Tell your boss and your boss's boss.

Re: Creo 4.0 - component selection

Just for information  -  SPR was loged and you can find it under number - SPR 6834208.
2017-07-24_08-18-56.jpg

Re: Creo 4.0 - component selection

In addition to the gripes about Smart selection filter being removed in Creo 4.0 in regards to selecting a component in an assembly, I now find it incredibly difficult to select and edit a feature of an activated component in an assembly.

 

In Creo 2.0, with the smart selection filter, once a component was activated, only features of that component would preselect, regardless of how many layers of other non-active components of the assembly were "in front of" that component. Other components would highlight ONLY if the cursor was not over the active part.

 

For instance, lets pretend we have an assembly with a bunch of components on top of a base plate that has a number of holes in it. In those holes are fasteners, or other components. Say I want to adjust the position of one of the holes in the base plate which is counterbored and has a socket head cap screw assembled into it. I activate the base plate, and with the geometry filter still active (assuming I didnt change it to part whilst the assembly was active, which would then require changing off of part.) I have to hover over the edge of the hole, and click it to then access the ability to edit definition of it. Even though the plate is active, preselection will highlight the SHCS in the hole. If I switch the filter to "feature", now it wants to select the feature that created the head of the SHCS, or the chamfer, or the hex. I have to hover over the small gap between the shcs head and the hole, generally requiring to zoom the view very close to the feature. Frustrating to select a hole that is even partially unobstructed to the view.

 

Now, pretend there is a component that is covering the hole with the shcs in it. Now I have to right click through all components until the feature of the plate, that I have active, is highlighted, while still contending with not selecting an edge or feature of the SHCS. Whoops, went one too far, start over.

 

Whereas in Creo 2.0, with SMART filter, the features of the ACTIVE part are all that would select.

Even if I have to manually change it from geometry to feature, to avoid highlighting every edge and surface on the part instead of a feature in its entirety, the fact that it attempts to, and allows, the preselection highlighting of features or components that are not active is incredibly frustrating.

 

Aside from being able to clearly see an activated component and turning the rest of the assembly transparent, this change has effectively rendered activating a component useless, considering I have to contend with selecting a feature the same, regardless if the component is active or not.

 

I find it strange, and quite frankly ironic, that time and effort went into the removal of SMART. Even if it was disabled or required some sort of workaround, why purposefully remove functionality?

Re: Creo 4.0 - component selection

Well I submitted a ticket regarding the issue, (trying to select a feature of an activated component in an assembly that is burried under other inactive items. In Creo 2.0, features of the activated component highlight first, and all other parts/features between the active component and viewpoint are transparent and ignored automatically by the selection.) Below is the response...
 
TL;DR: The smart selection filter was removed intentionally for creo 4.0, as a "new" geometry filter took its place (which was available in previous versions, just not selected as the default). The new enhanced selection of features of an activated component of an assembly is performing "to specification" for Creo 4, so no changes will be made to it, however they will consider an enhancement to this in Creo 5.
 
The suggested workaround method is to ALT+RMB to override geometry filter while assembly is active, this makes PARTS preselect highlight for selection.
Activate component, and RMB click though all inactive geometry entities of inactive components until the desired feature is highlighted. (9 additional RMB clicks in my example to ptc, in comparison to 0 RMB clicks in 2.0.)
 
Alternatively, once component is activated, ALT+RMB, to select by FEATURES, through all inactive features of inactive components between desired feature and viewpoint, until desired feature is selected. ( 5 Additional ALT+RMB clicks in my example to ptc, in comparison to 0 ALT+RMB clicks in 2.0)
 
 
Article - CS267145

 

In comparison between Creo Parametric 3.0 and Creo Parametric 4.0 selection of internal components in a assembly requires more clicks

Created: 21-Jul-2017   |   Modified: 21-Sep-2017   |     Last Seen: 21-Sep-2017    
 

 

Applies To

  • Creo Parametric 4.0 F000

Description

  • Selection of internal components in a assembly requires more clicks
  • Selection of feature of activated component in assembly require more clicks

Resolution

Re: Creo 4.0 - component selection


@MuzzyP wrote:
...
...
The suggested workaround method is to ALT+RMB to override geometry filter while assembly is active, this makes PARTS preselect highlight for selection.
Activate component, and RMB click though all inactive geometry entities of inactive components until the desired feature is highlighted. (9 additional RMB clicks in my example to ptc, in comparison to 0 RMB clicks in 2.0.)
 
Alternatively, once component is activated, ALT+RMB, to select by FEATURES, through all inactive features of inactive components between desired feature and viewpoint, until desired feature is selected. ( 5 Additional ALT+RMB clicks in my example to ptc, in comparison to 0 ALT+RMB clicks in 2.0)
...
...

Actually the suggested technique from PTC support for selecting the components with ALT+RMB is not working

at all....But luckily it looks that they fixed this behaviour in Creo 5.0.


The problem regarding feature/geometry selection on activated component still persist.



Re: Creo 4.0 - component selection

Where do you get the info that PTC is changing this on Creo 5?


Steve Williams
Pro/E Version 15/16 (Circa 1995/1996)

Re: Creo 4.0 - component selection


@StephenWilliams wrote:

Where do you get the info that PTC is changing this on Creo 5?


See above post from the case I opened.

 

Resolution

Re: Creo 4.0 - component selection

I saw that and wondered if that was the reason behind the fixed in creo 5 statement.

"Considered" is NOT a guarantee of anything.

PTC has considered upgrading the symbol creation functionality in drawings for at least the last 2 major releases but has not implemented a change to that functionality.

 


Steve Williams
Pro/E Version 15/16 (Circa 1995/1996)

Re: Creo 4.0 - component selection

I wish there was an attached document describing how it was decided to create that product specification and what it says, going back to the SPR that it had to be in response to.

Re: Creo 4.0 - component selection


@dschenken wrote:

I wish there was an attached document describing how it was decided to create that product specification and what it says, going back to the SPR that it had to be in response to.


Absolutely. I'm not rock solid against change at all costs, but I really would like to have been a fly on the wall during some of those decisions being made where they decided any of this was an "enhancement" or where removing an optional selection filter was desired. If they even so much as offered some insight to why it was removed, it might make accepting that it is never going to change a little easier to swallow.

 

I'm not a software engineer by any means, but I would think that for the majority of things that were ported from 2.0 to 3.0 to 4.0 that seemingly didn't change in functionality, that the user interface and ability to select components and features in the model would sort of be the highest priority. And I love the go-to response that, "it's performing to specification" in that, the specification was that it not work compared to 2.0 and 3.0? Just because something is performing as intended, does not mean that it is good, it means that the design and intent was poor.

 

And from what I have heard from every Creo user I have encountered, no one thinks that the selection is better, and everyone wants to know why SMART was removed. So for, from my perspective, a landslide opposition to the SMART filter being removed, why hasn't PTC thought, hey, maybe we should copy and paste those lines of code back into Creo 4.0 in a future datecode?

Re: Creo 4.0 - component selection

I did some tests in Creo 5.0 sneak peek. But sure, it can change until final version is released.

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