Relation between Height in MM and Height in number of character

[Ketan_Lalcheta]

Hi,

I do have table into creo drawing file. Table is having property of height and width. I would like to understand relation between Height in MM and Height in number of character.

Any clarification can be provided.

Thanks & Regards

Ketan

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[TomU]

The relationship between characters and actual height is based on the default text height (for the drawing or format) at the time of table creation.  See this reply from several years ago for a complete explanation. Scaling a created table

[Ketan_Lalcheta]

Hello Tom,

Thank you for this link. This would help me to find out row height based on number of characters in a filled table.

I would like to know relation between Row Height and Row height in number of characters. Table is not filled and would not get details of number of characters. Hope I have not misunderstand your point. If I misunderstood, Please elaborate more on your calculation.

Regards

Ketan

[kdirth]

The row height is based on the height of the default character height.  My default character height is 4 mm.  The row height is 8 mm to allow 2 mm of margin.  A row height of 2 characters is 14 mm - 8 mm character height, 2 mm margin top and bottom and 2 mm between rows.

[Ketan_Lalcheta]

I am not sure whether I am confused or not. But, I would like to extend my query as below:

Please find attached file for reference. If I know value 3, How can I say that other value is 0.2?

Regards

Ketan

[MartinHanak]

Ketan,

Creo offers two option for height setting. User chooses one of them and sets its value. Creo then automatically calculates the value belonging to the second option. Values are interdependent !

MH

[Ketan_Lalcheta]

Correct Martin Hanak...

I would like to know this interdependency.

For those who are concerned about my use case, Let me give you background of my pain area.

• I have a toolkit application which inserts table template into drawing file.
• This template is having some row height value and I am trying to get this height through code, but this height I am getting in MM or Inch based on drawing unit.
• Next Step I would like to o is to add new row into template table.
• This time, I would require to pass row height in No of characters.
• This imposes me to know relation between two different values.

Hope I have clarified requirement and background of the same.

Regards

Ketan

[MartinHanak]

Ketan,

please contact PTC Support and ask them how to set row height using drawing units in toolkit application.

MH

[Ketan_Lalcheta]

That case is already registered with PTC. by the time, If I come to know this relation from community, I can resolve issue. And for knowledge also, I prefer to have this relation.

[kdirth]

Row Height in drawing units = Margin Value + Height in Characters x (Default Text Height + Margin Value)

For a height of 4 characters in my standard drawing format:

    RH mm = 2 mm + 4 characters x (4 mm + 2 mm) = 26 mm

To turn that around, for a height of 38mm in my standard drawing format:

     Height in characters = (Row Height - Margin Value) / (Default Text Height + Margin Value)

     Height = (38 mm - 2 mm) / (4 mm + 2 mm) = 6 characters

After some playing with the units and values I have determined that the Margin value is 1/2 the text height.  That would make the equations:

Row Height = (0.5 x Default Text Height) + (Height in Characters x 1.5 x Default Text Height)

Or

Height in Characters = (Row Height - (0.5 x Default Text Height)) / (1.5 x Default Text Height)

[Ketan_Lalcheta]

Impressed. Good analysis on this by you. I have few more queries as below:

Query 1:

• I checked Row Height calculation from Row height in number of characters on a sample drawing with table template and that values follows your observation. Only surprise for me is that value I calculated from Number of character will be in Row height as MM unit, but I am getting that value in Inch Unit.

• For example, I have a table template which do have Row Height in Character as 1 and Row Height in Inch as 0.3. I inserted this template into drawing file having default text height as 0.15625. Applying your formula for Row Height in MM = (0.5 x Default Text Height) + (Height in Characters x 1.5 x Default Text Height), I am getting Row Height in MM as 0.3125. I am confused with this. Is it like that Row Height is same irrespective of unit MM and INCH? Is it just the display besides Row Height label based on drawing unit?

Query 2:

• I changed text_height from drawing property to 0.075 from 0.15625. Then I inserted table template into drawing file, but value of Row Height in Character as 1 and Row Height in Inch as 0.3 remained unchanged.

I am open to provide further clarification and / or sample files.

Regards

Ketan

[kdirth]

The default text height for a table appears to be what that value was when the table was created in the unit at creation and I have not found a way to change those settings.  So a table created in a drawing using 4 mm tall text will always have a Row Height in Characters based on 4 mm.  If the drawing units are changed to inches, the table sizing in characters will still be based on the original 4 mm, but the size in drawing units will be converted to the new units.

Take away:  Make your templates in drawing with the same values as the drawings you will be using it in.

Sure would be nice if we could control the properties of a table PTC.

[Ketan_Lalcheta]

Sorry Kevin but I did not get your response. Could you please elaborate it ?

Value of Default Text Height in formula is not same as value of property text_height in detail file for drawing? If not, what can be considered as value for Default Text Height in formula provided by you?

Regards

Ketan

[kdirth]

The table has it's own default text height.  This is set when the table is made and I do not know if it can be changed.  It is set to what ever the drawing properties are at the time it is created.  Changing the drawing properties has no effect on the "default" character height for an existing table.  The row height dialog box will always show the height in the drawing units based on the drawing properties.

A table created with default characters of 4 mm placed in an inch drawing will have a default character height of 0.1575 inches (4 mm) (a row height of 1 character = .3149 drawing units)

[Ketan_Lalcheta]

Hi Kevin,

I understood that value of Default Text Height in formula is not same as value of property text_height indetail file.

I would like to do below:

• I am having template file with value as 0.3 and 1.
• I will insert table template into drawing and will be able to find values as 0.3 and 1
• NOw, I will change text_height in drawing property and saved table as template file (.tbl) with new name
• I will insert table template into drawing and found values as 0.3 and 1
• Why this values does not change for new table as well in spite of me saving new template after setting new value of text_height.

I would like to know some scenario in which I can have 0.3 and 1 as different (Only one should change, not both). If this is not at all possible, I would like to know how I can prepare an entire new table template for which 0.3 and 1 are not the values for row height.

Thank you so much for your valuable inputs on this discussion.

Regards

Ketan

[TomU]

Re-saving an existing table does not reset any of it's properties.  The table's properties are set only when the table is initially created, not when an existing table is placed onto a drawing.  When we say initially created, we mean with this:

[kdirth]

You will have to create an entirely new table in a drawing with the correct dtl settings.  If you need formulas or text from the old table, create a new table, insert the old table, copy from the old to the new and save the new template.

[Ketan_Lalcheta]

Hi Kevin,

Sorry to ask you again and again, but I will not be able to engage my self into other task...

I am back with questions:

Is it globally true for any case that row height of one character = 0.3149 drawing units????

What does drawing units means?? Is it same as row height?

[kdirth]

Is it globally true for any case that row height of one character = 0.3149 drawing units????  No

When creating the table the text_height and drawing_units (inch/mm) determines the tables default character height.  1.0 character height = 2 x default character height (character + margins).

Drawing units in the table properties dialog box are measured according to the text_height and drawing_units in the detail options of the print.  It is a direct measurement of the row height in the current drawing_units (inch, foot, mm, cm, or m).

Example:

Make a table in a drawing where text_height=4.0 and drawing_units=mm.  (1.0 characters = 8.000 mm)

Change the drawing_units to inch or place table in drawing with drawing_units=inch.  (1.0 characters = 0.3149 inches)

[Ketan_Lalcheta]

Hi Kevin,

Appreciate your patience. I think now I am getting. Probably below will be true..right??

For example, I have drawing with value of text_height as 5 and then I create a table newly...so, 1 character = 10 mm..is it true that on table property page, I would have row height in character as 1 and row height in mm as10?

[kdirth · Accepted solution]

Close.

1 character height = 10 mm (5 mm character height + 2.5 mm top margin + 2.5 mm bottom margin)

1 character = 5mm, margins and spacings = 1/2 character

2 character height = 17.5 mm (2 x 5 mm character height + 2.5 mm top margin + 2.5 mm bottom margin + 2.5 mm spacing)

Just remember character height for the table does not change if the drawing options are changed and the drawing units measurement will always be measure by the units in the drawing options.

Hopefully this has not confused you, but I think you are getting the idea.

[Ketan_Lalcheta]

Hi Kevin,

It's amazing. Thanks a lot.gott idea of all points in your last comment...

I am from India and do not have creo in front of me right now...I would check below tomorrow morning in creo and hopefully I will get results also:

Open drawing with value of text_height as 5

Then I create a table newly

Check table property for row height in character as 1 and row height in mm as10

Change row height in mm as 17.5 on property page and row height in char on property page sholud change to 2 and vice versa.

Cheers...!

[TomU]

• I have a toolkit application which inserts table template into drawing file.
• This template is having some row height value and I am trying to get this height through code, but this height I am getting in MM or Inch based on drawing unit.
• Next Step I would like to o is to add new row into template table.

A couple of thoughts.

1. If you're inserting an existing table from file (.tbl), the values are already set.  They do not change when adding it to a new drawing, regardless of what that drawing's text height is on that new drawing.  The table will continue to use the values it had when the table was originally created.  Knowing this, you shouldn't need to calculate anything since the table's properties should already be known.
2. If you need to work with an existing table and don't know what the text height was originally set to at the time of table creation, simply create an extra row (temporarily) and set it's height to 1 character tall.  Then, read the actual row height back (in in or mm).  Whatever value returned is exactly double of the original text height.

Disclaimer:  I'm not a Toolkit programmer so I have no idea if Toolkit is capable of both reading and setting row heights by number of characters and actual dimensions.

[Ketan_Lalcheta]

NO, Tom. Actually toolkit takes different units while getting and setting row size. So, Conversion would be required to know.

[Ketan_Lalcheta]

Thank you every one for your extended hand of support!

[Ketan_Lalcheta]

Hi Kevin,

I tested this relation between row height and height in character... Is there any chances that below happens?

Table template in drw file with text_height as 5 is created. So, I got row height in character as 1 and row height in MM as 10. I saved table template. I did table from file into other drw file and those values were not 1 and 10.. I recollect that this happened in morning once but I am not sure...

[Ketan_Lalcheta]

I recall that I am not sure on which drawing file, a template was created, but this teplate inserted into two different drawing files were not having same values of row heights for both the drawings...

[kdirth]

This will happen if the drawing_units in the detail options are not the same between the files.

[Ketan_Lalcheta]

Hello Kevin,

Thank you very much for this information.

I have query over here:

1. drawing units refer to detail file setting? This can be set through File-->Prepare-->Drawing Property-->Detail Options (Change) -->drawing_units
   • Value for this can be either of inch , foot, mm, cm or m
   • If this is the case, I need to prepare five different templates file
2. drawing units refer to sheet size?
   • Here, Value can be either MM or Inch as below

• In this case, I need to prepare two different templates file

Note : In some of the drawing files, I have seen that Drawing_Units is in MM where as sheet size is in Inch.

Please help me on this scenario.

Regards

Ketan

[kdirth]

1. Correct.  However, in m experience inch and mm are the most popular and I have not seen the others used.

2. The sheet format should not affect the tables.