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create drawing needs saving 3d model

AM_9243347
5-Regular Member

create drawing needs saving 3d model

Hi all;

In our company we have set a policy to release 3d model before starting to create drawing and therefore system not allow the user to save 3d model in this phase . 

Our problem is that to create sections in 2d it  creates the section in 3d model also which results to modification of 3d model and therefore it needs being saved ...

My question is that how do you manage this situation? Is there any other alternatives to it?

Please share your experience in this regard.

 

I really appreciate your help.

Sincerely yours.

1 ACCEPTED SOLUTION

Accepted Solutions
sacquarone
19-Tanzanite
(To:pausob)

Hello @AM_9243347 

 

Creation of a section in Drawing environment as per steps documented in above Help Center will actually produce a 3D section, and will be therefore created in the 3D Model (visible in 3D Model's Model Tree):

  • This is documented in Help Center URL mentioning as a note "You can only display existing 3D cross sections in drawings. You cannot create a new 3D cross section in a drawing."
  • This is expected and cannot be avoided for the following reason:
    • The section, even though created in drawing environment, takes reference in the 3D Model (the plane or surfacae) => Visible in >Information >Reference Viewer
    • The parametric link to 3D Geometry is therefiore required to guarantee expected update if geomtry changes later in the 3D Model (as a general rule, without speaking about "released" state)

 

That said, even though this is technically possible to produce a section draft view (in drawing) completely decorrelated from the drawing model (illustrated in move attached, as an answer to your question), this is nevertheless not recommended from a functional standpoint.

 

To answer first your question from a technical standpoint, I registered a little movie to show you how this can be achieved (if you want to definitely keep your current methodology).

 

Consider however that from a functional standpoint, the "cross section use case described here" is only the visible part of a much bigger iceberg behind the scene. When building drawings, you need very often to modify the part or assembly used as "Drawing Model" (need of a new simp rep? Need to change & save Layer Display at 3D Mode level? Need of a new datum? Need to "freeze" a componant failing plaement due to placement reference lost? etc ...). Also, please observe that when just creating simple dimensions in the drawing (not "showing", but "creating") will ALSO modify (per default) the drawing model. For this, a solution exists to avoid it by using create_drawing_dims_only to yes in config.pro (value no being the defualt setting, because usage of "yes" generates many limitations afterwards ... long to develop here).

 

So, due to above considerations, the question now is: How can I STOP TO ALLOW modifications in Drawing Models for my 3D Designers, but STILL ALLOW to do minor changes (required when building drawings) for my Drawing Creators?

=> For this, you may consider an additonal LifeCycle state, you may call "pre-released" (just before "Released")

=> And then configure ACLs for this intermediate LC State specific to CAD Document Type to:

  1. Grant read access ONLY for 3D Designers
  2. But grant Read AND Modify access for the Drawing Creators

 

Not sure if above approach will allow you driving everything from PLM perspective (maybe, you really need the Drawing Models being "Released" - without intermediate LifeCycle state - before building your drawings). If so, I have no other approach than the one shown in atached movie (for the sections), but with limitations from an higher pespective (for the other use cases previously considered in this post).

 

Regards,

 

Serge

View solution in original post

8 REPLIES 8
pausob
17-Peridot
(To:AM_9243347)

Have you tried to make the cross-section in the drawing?

See To Create a 2D Cross Section in a Drawing page in the help index.

I don't know if that above procedure still modifies the 3D model.

 

 

 

sacquarone
19-Tanzanite
(To:pausob)

Hello @AM_9243347 

 

Creation of a section in Drawing environment as per steps documented in above Help Center will actually produce a 3D section, and will be therefore created in the 3D Model (visible in 3D Model's Model Tree):

  • This is documented in Help Center URL mentioning as a note "You can only display existing 3D cross sections in drawings. You cannot create a new 3D cross section in a drawing."
  • This is expected and cannot be avoided for the following reason:
    • The section, even though created in drawing environment, takes reference in the 3D Model (the plane or surfacae) => Visible in >Information >Reference Viewer
    • The parametric link to 3D Geometry is therefiore required to guarantee expected update if geomtry changes later in the 3D Model (as a general rule, without speaking about "released" state)

 

That said, even though this is technically possible to produce a section draft view (in drawing) completely decorrelated from the drawing model (illustrated in move attached, as an answer to your question), this is nevertheless not recommended from a functional standpoint.

 

To answer first your question from a technical standpoint, I registered a little movie to show you how this can be achieved (if you want to definitely keep your current methodology).

 

Consider however that from a functional standpoint, the "cross section use case described here" is only the visible part of a much bigger iceberg behind the scene. When building drawings, you need very often to modify the part or assembly used as "Drawing Model" (need of a new simp rep? Need to change & save Layer Display at 3D Mode level? Need of a new datum? Need to "freeze" a componant failing plaement due to placement reference lost? etc ...). Also, please observe that when just creating simple dimensions in the drawing (not "showing", but "creating") will ALSO modify (per default) the drawing model. For this, a solution exists to avoid it by using create_drawing_dims_only to yes in config.pro (value no being the defualt setting, because usage of "yes" generates many limitations afterwards ... long to develop here).

 

So, due to above considerations, the question now is: How can I STOP TO ALLOW modifications in Drawing Models for my 3D Designers, but STILL ALLOW to do minor changes (required when building drawings) for my Drawing Creators?

=> For this, you may consider an additonal LifeCycle state, you may call "pre-released" (just before "Released")

=> And then configure ACLs for this intermediate LC State specific to CAD Document Type to:

  1. Grant read access ONLY for 3D Designers
  2. But grant Read AND Modify access for the Drawing Creators

 

Not sure if above approach will allow you driving everything from PLM perspective (maybe, you really need the Drawing Models being "Released" - without intermediate LifeCycle state - before building your drawings). If so, I have no other approach than the one shown in atached movie (for the sections), but with limitations from an higher pespective (for the other use cases previously considered in this post).

 

Regards,

 

Serge

pausob
17-Peridot
(To:sacquarone)

Hi @sacquarone , I am not the original poster.

Nevertheless, I submit the help documentation is not totally clear - I thought 3D section was the "zone" type or offset type...  your video makes it clear that 2D sections can be created in the drawing, but system will still make a 3D section in the model.

 

The policy of the company where original poster is employed seems rather restrictive, to be sure.  Models and drawings go hand in hand, so why freeze one before the other?  Anyway, I'm not sure your  proposed workflow would solve their issues - after all, how do you trust the drawing creators to not "disturb" the model?"

Isn't that why there is typically a doc approval stage where the designer has to check the finalized checked-in model?

 

 

 

AM_9243347
5-Regular Member
(To:pausob)

Hi @pausob 

I agree that this policy might be restrictive, but it is also required as long as we can not control that a model is not modified after design is finished and any other approach add extra activity which means more time and energy ... it is not possible for a designer to check every time what is changed in a checked-in model in a real project ! 

 

Sincerely yours.

Hello @AM_9243347 

 

I agree with @pausob  when he says that Models and drawings are supposed to go "hand in hand" to be in a configuration following our best practicies. You both are nevertheless also right when saying that my suggested workflow (introduction of a "pre-released LC state") - even though supposed to allow only "minor modifications" - would not prevent "major modifications" in 3D Models by the users who are supposed to be only "drawing creators", losing therefore control of what is really modified by the drawing creators. So, please accept my apologies, and just ignore this suggestion.

 

The "doc approval stage" suggested by Paul seems therefore a possible way to go. Before going in Released State, the CAD DOcument (3D Model) is supposed to follow usually the Promotion Request workflow. OOTB, The Review & Approval process of Promotion Requests (documented here for what is offered OOTB, and here and here for guidance in the customization direction - links for WIndchill PDMLink 12.0 version). Some logic can therefore be introduced (somewhere in the "approval process" workflow) to somehow "involve the Drawing Creators", in order to allow them to "Reject" the promotion request if something (needed in Drawing, but missing in Drawing Model, like a cross section in this use case) is missing in the 3D Model.

  • Pros of this approach: Allow 3D Models going in Release State ONLY when Drawing Creators will have EVERYTHING in the Drawing Models to create their drawings
  • Cons of this approach: This will delay the "time to Released state" for Drawing Models (because they will need to wait for the approval - and therefore the time for the work and analysis phase in new drawings - by the Drawing Creators)

 

Alternatively, if your ony "blocking point" is the creation of a section in Drawing environment supposed to NOT modify the Drawing Model, you can approach this with the logic of my movie shared yesterday, consisting therefore in approaching this as follows:

  1. Create a section in the drawing ("Checkout" the drawing + "Continue" the drawing model - because "Check Out" denied due to "Released" state)
  2. Select View and Convert to Draft Entities
  3. Select Draft entities produced in step 2, and access Create Draft View
  4. Checkin Drawing Only and Remove 3D Model from workspace (local modifications in Drawing Model will be lost, and this is intentional in this approached workflow)

 

Regards,

 

Serge

pausob
17-Peridot
(To:AM_9243347)

Yes, well, I guess to each his own.  Personally, I don't think I've ever had a design that was ready to be detailed without further changes to the model.

 

Anyway, at this point, I'm just guessing at these 3 work-arounds:

1) perhaps you can ask the designers to create the cross-sections that they will expect to be detailed by the drawing creators...

 

2) have the drawing creator make an assembly - with just the part in it - and then detail the drawing of this "assembly"...  This way the part itself can be "frozen" but the drawing creator will be free to cross-section it in the assembly context.  this is quite a "hack" - it adds confusing structure and I don't think layers will work well...

 

3) maybe you can make all the features in the released part "read-only"?  Then allow the drawing creators to check-out the model but insist that they can only add features that do not modify part geometry - such as datum axes, cosmetic sketches, GD&T and cross-sections, analysis features, etc... But I don't know if there are other limitations, and I don't think the user interface can prevent them from removing the read-only status.  So, seems like a non-starter as someone will have to check that a rogue draftsperson hadn't circumvented this safeguard...

 

Good luck!  Please create a product-improvement idea about this allowing of creation of sections that can be stored in the drawing (kind of like the draft dimensions / create_drawing_dims_only yes setting), without the need to modify the model.

TomU
23-Emerald III
(To:AM_9243347)

I use to work in a company that did something similar.  One group of people did the 3D designs and another group did the 2D detailing.  The people creating the 2D drawings did not have the rights to check out and modify any of the 3D design files (.prt or .asm).  If something was missing in 3D, it was the responsibility of the designers to go back and add it for the detailers.

 

Seems like you need a process to make sure the 3D designers are adding everything necessary for future detailing.  Maybe a better checklist???

If this is the process you are going to use, you will have to add in to your process of sending the model back to the designer to "correct" the model deficiencies as identified by the detailer.  Creo really doesn't work the way you are trying to use it so you have to make your process work within those constraints.

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