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Measure Tools

jnelson
13-Aquamarine

Measure Tools

The TCs are working on providing feedback/information to PTC on Measure Tool in PRO/E.


Please send any feedback to the following questions...


Thank you for your time and feedback


Do you use the existing measure tool?


If yes



  1. What do you like about it?

  2. What could be improved?

  3. What types of measurements are you performing? For what purpose?

  4. How is this information used? Does this information get passed downstream? In what format? (email, parameter in the model, in a table on a drawing, etc)

  5. Would it be useful to display this information in a persistent note, annotation or other type of feature?

If no, why not?



  1. Is it too difficult to use?

  2. Is it not necessary for your job function?

  3. Any additional comments or information on how the tool is used is welcome. The more details we get the better we can design the new User Interface.


This thread is inactive and closed by the PTC Community Management Team. If you would like to provide a reply and re-open this thread, please notify the moderator and reference the thread. You may also use "Start a topic" button to ask a new question. Please be sure to include what version of the PTC product you are using so another community member knowledgeable about your version may be able to assist.
29 REPLIES 29

I use the measure tool very often, and for two main reasons:


1. To measure distances in parts/assemblies so I know how much to modify the related features to get the dimensions just right.
2. To drive flat pattern dimensions for sheetmetal parts. We create our parts in the flat, and need flat pattern dimensions (which dynamically update). The measure feature is the only way I know of how to do this without writing ugly relations.


Off the top of my head, if there was a button (like the right mouse click) that would remove the references for the measurement you just took, it would speed up the process of taking many measurements instead of having to press the button on the window each time. Or even another button that would keep the first measurement, but let you pick a second reference to speed up the process of measuring from one area would also be nice.


Going back to the flat pattern dimensions, we use these in family tables. The reason is, if there is only one instance you can just make a dimension in the drawing instead.


Sometimes when designing, and especially in tight areas where there is little room I make sketches. I reference certain features then make a reference dimension. This allows me to quickly view complex relationships between features to check critical distances. Sadly, due to the simplicity of the measurement command I do not think showing a small note in the model would be easy to implement for these complex relationships.


I personally find this utility useful, especially for design.

Being able to measure the diameter and the radius of a surface and curve/edge would be nice. As far as I know you can measure the diameter of a surface but not the radius and you can measure the radius of a curve/edge but not the diameter. It'd be nice to do both for each geometry type.

Ted


dgschaefer
21-Topaz II
(To:jnelson)

My experience only goes to WF4 at this point.



1. What do you like about it?

That it keeps the source pick and you can repeatedly pick new targets
for many measurements from a single item.

That it recognizes planar and circular items so you can measure to the
center or the edge/normal or not.



2. What could be improved?

Little things:

Let me use the restart button even if I've only picked one item.

Give me the ability to measure to the far side of an arc or circle.

Built in copy-to-clipboard function, or better yet build in multiple
clipboard 'containers' to allow us to temporarily store several lines of
texts or numbers.

Though I like the persistent 'source' function, a way to toggle that off
for repeated new measurements might be nice.

Built in units conversion. We design more and more in metric, but
frequently need to understand the measurements in English units. Having
the option to display the measurements in dual dims would be nice.



Big things:

Revamp all the tools into one. Give me a single measure tool where in 3
clicks (measure tool - item 1 - item 2) Pro/E will display everything it
can about those two items. Angle, min distance, max distance, normal
distance, dist to center, perimeter, area, curvature, radius, diameter,
distance along X, Y and Z axis, etc. Work would have to be done to
display all this info in a way that's useful, but having a robust tool
like this would be quite helpful. Take a look at the SW measure tool.
It's close to this, but not quite there. The biggest thing it misses is
the persistent 'source', but not all possible measurements are displayed
and getting to non-default measurements is painful as well. A
config/settings dialog where I can choose what types of measurements to
display would be nice.



3. What types of measurements are you performing? For what purpose?

General model inquiries to verify the design



4. How is this information used? Does this information get passed
downstream? In what format? (email, parameter in the model, in a table
on a drawing, etc.)

Typically written down or copied and pasted into another dimension or
application.



5. Would it be useful to display this information in a persistent note,
annotation or other type of feature?

Maybe, but not often. Can't this already be done by saving it as an
analysis feature and displaying the results in an annotation?



Hope that helps,



Doug Schaefer
--
Doug Schaefer | Experienced Mechanical Design Engineer
LinkedIn

Although the measure tool was improved, it is still inferior to
competing CAD software.



I've been asking since 2005, Please Please Please look at the Solidworks
measure tool, its that good.

With a click the Measure icon (only one icon needed) select whatever
geometry you want, it automatically lists all the measurements that can
be made that are relevant to your selection(s).

Make it object-action, select something and have Measure available in
the right click menu.



Being able to save a measurement from one window and recall it in
another would be great - a clipboard thingy that could be copied and
pasted to/from.



My uses for measure include verifying alignments, clearances, diameters.



Regards,

Walt Weiss






Ditto on praise for the Solidworks measure tool. PTC should definitely look at it for improvement ideas on their measure tool.

While we're at it, how about finally incorporating easy direct interface of Excel spreadsheets to ProE instead of ancient table tools that ProE uses now. Solidworks for years has been able to drop in Excel spreadsheets easily and they can be edited and modified easily as well. Tables are a real pain in ProE detailing.

Also, being able to apply draft to a protrusion during feature creation has been possible in Solidworks for years. It saves a lot of time on simple parts modeling for moulded parts. Why can't we do this in ProE?

Jeff Dayman
vloos
1-Newbie
(To:jnelson)

Also, if it's possible to make the 'Smart' block in the lower right of
the screen stay on the same selection until I change it would be nice.



It changes back to 'Smart' all the time whenever you exit the measure
command.



One has to select surface or edge or axis, etc. every time you enter
measure, or query to infinity.



Vinson A. Loos

Mechanical Engineering

DRS Tactical Systems - Melbourne, FL

(321) 727-3672 Ext. 3409

-

www.drs.com
bj603
1-Newbie
(To:jnelson)

It is great PTC is inviting input - thanks.

1. When saving a measure as a feature, and then displaying the results in the Model Tree: ... one can add a column, and select "Feat Params" for the type, but then one needs to remember the parameter name(s), & manually type them - - would be nice to have a list of available selections instead.

2. Would be a big improvement to be able to display units of parameters (and for other info types also, like density/etc.) in a Model Tree column.

3. For measuring Draft (which is an excellent tool by the way), one can save multiple analyses, but apparently can not have each one display with a unique color scheme. (If you modify the color scheme of the second draft analysis, the first draft analysis takes on the same color. The use case is when you have multiple pull directions, and need to distinguish what surfaces of the model are drafted in the various directions - there is not a convenient solution presently.)

4. There is a tool to measure model wall thickness in the mold analysis menu (if using the hidden config setting: "3d_thickness_check yes"). It looks very promising, and would be of great value, but it has some issues. Any chance this will see improvements, and make it into "unhidden" status?

5. It was concerning to learn that the accuracy of some measures is controlled by a config setting (clearance_triangulation none/low/medium/high ; this "specifies the quality of surface triangulation used to obtain initial guess points for clearance and interference calculations"). It is unclear how one is to know:
- when they need to change from the default "none" value (if the value reported is not obviously wrong)?
- what is the best value to use for the setting?
- when the result is "not accurate enough" for the conditions their users will encounter?

Thanks for the opportunity to input. It would be good if PTC could post follow-ups, since there are many changes that do not make it into the "what's new" documents.

Regards,

Terry Partridge




From: "Loos, Vinson (SA-1)" <->
To: Jeff Dayman <->, "Weiss, Walter" <->, Joel Nelson <->, -
Date: 04/25/2011 03:55 PM
Subject: [proecad] - RE: Measure Tools



Also, if it’s possible to make the ‘Smart’ block in the lower right of the screen stay on the same selection until I change it would be nice.

It changes back to ‘Smart’ all the time whenever you exit the measure command.

One has to select surface or edge or axis, etc. every time you enter measure, or query to infinity.

Vinson A. Loos
Mechanical Engineering
DRS Tactical Systems - Melbourne, FL
(321) 727-3672 Ext. 3409
-
www.drs.com

Also, please look at the 'order' of entity selection for most things. I
would expect selection process that selects from high level entities to
low level entities. Other that proximity to the selection arrow point,
there doesn't seem to be much order to the selection process now. I
would expect something like this:

complete solid, solid faces, complete quilts, quilt faces, complete
curves, solid edges, quilt edges, curve segments, etc...



I agree that the Solidworks measure tool is light years ahead of the
current PTC tool.





Christopher F. Gosnell



FPD Company

124 Hidden Valley Road

McMurray, PA 15317
dgschaefer
21-Topaz II
(To:jnelson)

I agree that the selection order in measuring needs help. Why does it
differ from the general selection order? In general, with the 'smart'
filter engaged, Pro/E will highlight features first, then when a feature
is selected entities of that feature will highlight. Could that be
adapted for the measure tool? Perhaps not as you don't often select
'features' for measuring, but PTC needs to start thinking about similar
situations that occur across different parts of the software. As it is,
the main UI folks set up their own selection scheme and the measure
folks have theirs. There ought to be some commonality.



Personally, the frustrating part is that the measure tool feels somewhat
random in what it selects first, although there is a hierarchy.
Unfortunately, that hierarchy starts at edges, which in other parts of
Pro/E are down the priority list for selection.



I like Chris' high level to low level concept, but I also like the idea
of toggling through the model as an arrow would pass through the model
where the cursor is, regardless of what type of entity it is.



Selection order needs attention, but it must be done with respect to the
selection process in other parts of Pro/E.



Doug Schaefer
--
Doug Schaefer | Experienced Mechanical Design Engineer
LinkedIn

No to gripe too much, I agree that finding the balance between selecting
the 'proper' features and in the proper area is a balancing act.



But also griping, I would like to know why, in drawing mode, the
selection filter is not more selective to 'outline' edges vs. tangent
edges, and why pro-e will happy let you dimension to edges not visible.





Christopher F. Gosnell



FPD Company

124 Hidden Valley Road

McMurray, PA 15317
A.DelNegro
4-Participant
(To:jnelson)

A further improvement to #1… Why do I need to add a column to show the value anyway? If I’m adding an analysis feature, one of the main reasons I use this is to monitor this value. Why not display the value in the name of the feature say like… ANALYSIS_DISTANCE_1 [3.2543] ?? Or maybe even give me a RMB click that would show me the value of the feature? I personally don’t usually show any columns other than the model tree. I add columns when I’m modifying parameters in my assembly drawings but that’s pretty much it. It seems a waste of screen real estate to add a whole column, just to show the value next to the one or two features.



Tony


I commented on this on PlanetPTC some while ago:

And while we are at it...


The Analysis tool in general, Quick Vs. Saved specifically. Whymust all the Qucik values go away as soon as an analysis is completed? If I wanted to save it, I would choose Saved, but I don't want a saved analysis. However in order to see what I want, I mustchoose Saved... (why isQuick the default value in the flyout???). So, I run the analysis and it and then goes away. Useless.


In order tosee the values I want I am forced to chooseSaved Analyses, which then requires me tochoose the Analysis tool again, then View Saved Analysis (which is hidden by the way), then forces me to choose unhide to see the values I wanted to see eight clicks back. Huh?


For the life of me, I cannot understand the logic that was employed with this functionality. Please make it simple.

dgschaefer
21-Topaz II
(To:jnelson)

It's stupid UI more than anything. If you click the glasses button,
it'll run the analysis and show you the results. If you click the green
check, it's like saying done and it dismisses the dialog. Why it runs
the analysis again before dismissing is beyond me. I just use the
glasses (to run the analysis) and the red X to close, don't bother with
the green check button.



Nearly every user that encounters that UI does what you do and can't
figure out why. I can't believe that any Pro/E user actually used and
approved that dialog before it went into the software.



Doug Schaefer
--
Doug Schaefer | Experienced Mechanical Design Engineer
LinkedIn

Yeah Doug...I guess it's just a caseof the Old Dog (me) trying to learn (rather "notice") the new tricks. I feel a bit foolish as I have been on the Wildfire trail for 6 years! Sad isn't it?


Can you hear the Gray Matter hardening?


Thank you to everyone who has replied to this thread! I've been pleasantly surprised at the quantity and consistency of everyone's feedback, which makes it easier to prioritize what needs to be done.


Here are the underlying themese that I've observed:





  • Make the measurements intelligent (i.e. If you select a surface you probably want the surface area and perimeter, if you select a curve you probably want the curve length, if you select two edges you might want the minimum and maximum distance, etc.)

    • the current tool returns a single value which may not be what you were looking for



  • Today when measurements are saved, they are "hidden" and not easy to access (compared to annotations which show int he model tree).

    • I envision a history of measurements that have been taken in session that are easily copied, transferred to a parameter or perhaps even stored in an annotation feature. Of course we will have to see if any of these options are possible.

    • If measurements are saved, they cannot be moved and their appearance cannot be modified.

      • Again, I would like to see some of the same capabilites tha are available for annotations applied to the measure tools.











Of course there several other items that will be improved over time, but I see the above points as the major ones to address first.



Rosemary Astheimer


PTC Product Manager, AnyData Adoption


OUCH ... she said "ribbon"
Especially, since that's worked out so well in drawing mode.

Please DO NOT make the measure tool a ribbon. The ProE drawing ribbon interface is awful, please don't ruin measure tool the same way.

Jeff Dayman
jnelson
13-Aquamarine
(To:jnelson)

All,
IF you are your bothered by the Ribbon Interface from Wildfire 5, it is understandable.

However, the Ribbon Interface in CREO 1 is completely revamped, and totally customizable.

I too was disappointed with what WF5 had offered. However, I am completely satisfied with the Ribbon in CREO 1 and looking forward it.




Joel Nelson
PTC/USER Sheetmetal TC Chair

[cid:image001.jpg@01CC065A.54D88100]


mjenkins
4-Participant
(To:jnelson)

I would like to be able to hit a button and take a picture of the measured dimension and it's value.


Currently I use a different program to window around and screen copy because the measure goes away if you try to hit File >Save As>*.JPG

mjenkins
4-Participant
(To:jnelson)

I would like to be able to hit a button and take a picture of the measured dimension and it's value.


Currently I use a different program to window around and screen copy because the measure goes away if you try to hit File >Save As>*.JPG




In Reply to Joel Nelson:



The TCs are working on providing feedback/information to PTC on Measure Tool in PRO/E.


Please send any feedback to the following questions...


Thank you for your time and feedback


Do you use the existing measure tool?


If yes



  1. What do you like about it?

  2. What could be improved?

  3. What types of measurements are you performing? For what purpose?

  4. How is this information used? Does this information get passed downstream? In what format? (email, parameter in the model, in a table on a drawing, etc)

  5. Would it be useful to display this information in a persistent note, annotation or other type of feature?

If no, why not?



  1. Is it too difficult to use?

  2. Is it not necessary for your job function?

  3. Any additional comments or information on how the tool is used is welcome. The more details we get the better we can design the new User Interface.






If you are using Windows holding down the ALT key while pressing down the Print Screen button will copy the active window in to the clipboard, if you hold down the CTRL Key it will copy your whole desktop to your clipboard and then you paste in to Word or Paint to see what you just copied.

Hope that helps,

[cid:image001.jpg@01CC0E2B.09F9CC10]
The information contained in this electronic mail transmission is intended by Weil-McLain & for the use of the named individual or entity to which it is directed and may contain information that is confidential or privileged. If you have received this electronic mail transmission in error, please notify the sender of the error by reply email so that the sender's address records can be corrected and delete it from your system without copying or forwarding it, including any reply records.
bkurth
7-Bedrock
(To:jnelson)

Hi,


If you go to Start>>AllPrograms>>Accessories>>Snipping Tool, Right-Click on Snipping Tool and then Click Pin to Start Menu.


Then, when you are doing a measurement, you can hit your Windows Keys (between the CTRL & ALT keys on left side of spacebar). That will open the Start Menu, and Run the Snipping Tool. You can then drag a window and copy and paste to email, Paint, or wherever you need to copy the image. If you want to save the image, I usually run Paint, and then save from there. I have Paint pinned to my Start Menu, as well, so I can get to it with the Windows Key. I have attached a sample of a snipped image.


Hope this helps...Brian

In Reply to Michael Jenkins:



I would like to be able to hit a button and take a picture of the measured dimension and it's value.


Currently I use a different program to window around and screen copy because the measure goes away if you try to hit File >Save As>*.JPG

kkja
1-Newbie
(To:jnelson)

FYI,

Snipping Tool is only available on Windows 7, Vista and the Experience Pack for Windows XP.



I’m stuck with XP SP3 so I use MWSnap. It is very light weight and best of all, it is free and will run on any version of Windows.

Does anyone else have a recurring issue with pasting screen grabs /
screenshots while Pro/E is running?

I frequently get a Windoze error along the lines of "There is not enough
storage to process the command" when I try to paste my Alt+PrtScrn'd
grab into imaging software (doesn't seem to matter what). The only
solution is to close Pro/E - then it works, even without repeating the
'grab'.

Win XP Pro 2002 SP3 32 bit
3.25 GB reported in System Properties, with /3GB switch ( but no
/USERVA)
WF4 M110

Thanks!
Jonathan
bkurth
7-Bedrock
(To:jnelson)

You are right, Jeff! My apologies if this confused anyone...but it will work if you are running the right software, likeJeff stated.

In Reply to Jeff Cool:


FYI,

Snipping Tool is only available on Windows 7, Vista and the Experience Pack for Windows XP.



I’m stuck with XP SP3 so I use MWSnap. It is very light weight and best of all, it is free and will run on any version of Windows.

http://mwsnap.softlate.com/?gclid=CNTd2N2_3agCFRG4Kgodoj_ABQ





Jeff <><


gwalker
4-Participant
(To:jnelson)

Yes, we have the same problem (with the almost identical system) - however - it does not depend strictly on Pro/E.
On occasion I have the same problem copying and pasting any large graphically detailed image.
Turning off the 3GB switch makes the image pasting problem go away (but causes memory issues with large Pro/E assemblies).
I have not found a compromise (I have not found a value of /USERVA that eliminates the problem).
I am investigating screen capture software (like previously mentioned MWSnap) to see if that will help.
Let me know if you get any other suggestions.
Gordon Walker
Pro/E Administrator
(804) 451-2410<tel:804-451-2410>

Our boot.ini



multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
Professional /4GB" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect /3GB /Userva=3072



GADWIN print screen works for us


I like Gadwin as well except when it turns into a black square, I think this is a dual monitor issue. It goes away with a restart.

For the boot.ini line below:
Be careful if you want to copy and paste this into your own boot.ini file, the numbers in parentheses must be identical for your system. PCs such as Dells have a hidden partition for the recovery disk image and the numbers are different. It can render your PC unbootable. Refer to windows documentation if you are unsure.
Mine are as follows: multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional - 3GB" /3GB

Ian Blackie
MCAD Administrator
514 341-2000 ext. 2798
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