Problem: A foot line is set in Misc/Frame object graphics/surround frame. There are a 5-10 footnotes per page. It is still (V11.0M060) not possible to get to get all references on the same page together with the beginning of the footnote text, without getting emtpy space below the last footnote text placed or extra space between the foot line and the first footnote text or a lot of unneccessary text that's shifted to the next page.
Best solution so far: Under Problems/Bottom-up footnotes select Reducing footnote height with Step 1, Limit 0, Enable format log to detect first footnote, that is move to the next page leaving its refernce. Then place breakb b16 to second line from bottom and format again. When you are lucky you get more than 10 fine pages. With books that have more than 2000 pages you need some time.
Proposed Solution: Add an option to insert space above the foot line. This will move the last line (maybe more) to the next page and the reference will stay together with its text.
- keep inserting space above the surround frame (or if not exists: the top footnote frame) until the reference of the footnote in focus is moved to the next page (consider tied paragraphes as usual) [that is: reduce maximum vertikal size for text]
- reformat the page in order to place the footnotes remaining on this page at the bottom of the page (in case other footnotes have been moved too)
- fail if page is empty
This will fix allmost all footnote problems I saw in the last years.
I see what you mean. In the simple case, such as a single column book then I think what you propose will work.
The problem occurs in more complicated situations where the act of putting extra space above the footnote area actually causes side effects in the reflow of the main text. An example would be widows/orphans or keeps which then drag other footnote references with them.
Example: even though you only took one line over to solve the footnote problem, that one line had to drag another 2-3 lines over which themselves contained more footnote references. Now you have to go back to the other page and pull those footnotes over, making more space, meaning widows/orphans might kick in again ... etc.
What this means is you end up with a circular problem of bringing footnote references backwards/forwards between pages to try and solve the problem. This reasoning was explained to me back when I was a 3B2 programmer, and the current set of options in "Problems" tab are the simplest mechanisms to solve the displaced reference problem.
I agree that footnotes handling isn't perfect in APP and for that reason we often recommend our clients to avoid footnotes if at all possible.
In summary, I like your idea of improving footnotes, but I don't believe your suggestion will work in 100% of all cases and may need further consideration.
In fact we have keeps an lines with several footnotes. That's why I wrote "This will move the last line (maybe more) to the next page..."
The side effects in the in the reflow of the main text Gareth mentioned are no problem. They are part of the solution. When moved to next page don't kick them in again. No cycling. It will speed up formating.
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