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EPIC AND SVG FORMAT

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Newbie

EPIC AND SVG FORMAT

Hi Adepters,
I would like to know if and how EPIC 4.4 implements format SVG.
It is possible to view today objects SVG in the form of graphic notations.
Thanks in advance.
Eddy
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11 REPLIES 11
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Re: EPIC AND SVG FORMAT


Eddy,

The Epic help file (help 247) currently does not list SVG as a supported
graphic type. I personally have not worked with SVG graphics as my
customer, the U.S. Army (and others) are not ready to jump on the SVG
bandwagon. The comments I hear from more experienced graphics types is
that though SVG can do wonderful things, it is still evolving and not
widely enough supported for us to implement (at this time, though we are
getting requests to do so).

I would declare the NOTATION in your DTD or instance and see if Epic can
work with an SVG file. Right now, I would say no, it probably will not (at
least natively). Is SVG support coming for Epic, I'll leave that to John
or another Arbortext spokesperson to say. Given the popularity SVG is
gaining, I would say yes, I just have no idea as to when.

Lynn
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Re: EPIC AND SVG FORMAT

Thanks a lot Lynn for all those informations. I will say you if we find a
solution that can be interesting for everyone for the future.

Eddy

-----Message d'origine-----
De : owner-adepters@arbortext.com
De la part de Lynn Hales
Envoye : jeudi 19 fevrier 2004 12:40
A : adepters@arbortext.com
Objet : Re: EPIC AND SVG FORMAT

Eddy,

The Epic help file (help 247) currently does not list SVG as a supported
graphic type. I personally have not worked with SVG graphics as my
customer, the U.S. Army (and others) are not ready to jump on the SVG
bandwagon. The comments I hear from more experienced graphics types is
that though SVG can do wonderful things, it is still evolving and not
widely enough supported for us to implement (at this time, though we are
getting requests to do so).

I would declare the NOTATION in your DTD or instance and see if Epic can
work with an SVG file. Right now, I would say no, it probably will not (at
least natively). Is SVG support coming for Epic, I'll leave that to John
or another Arbortext spokesperson to say. Given the popularity SVG is
gaining, I would say yes, I just have no idea as to when.

Lynn
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Re: EPIC AND SVG FORMAT

The fact that Epic does not support SVG yet should not prevent you from
using SVG files in outputs that *do* support SVG, such as HTML for
browsers with SVG-viewer plug-ins You can write an XSLT transform to
change the file extension on graphic filenames from whatever to .svg.
As long as the svg filename exists, it will work.
Doing this for PDF would be fairly difficult, because of Epic's internal
code for conversion of XML/SGML to PostScript.
Of course, this would probably require the maintaining of duplicate
filenames with different extensions, at least for a little while until
Epic supports SVG directly.
I know it's not as simple as it would be if Epic supported SVG directly,
but it could be done for certain outputs, if necessary.
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Re: EPIC AND SVG FORMAT

Thanks a lot Benton.

I'm going to explore all of those possibilities.

-----Message d'origine-----
De : owner-adepters@arbortext.com
De la part de Benton, Ed L
Envoye : jeudi 19 fevrier 2004 14:49
A : adepters@arbortext.com
Objet : RE: EPIC AND SVG FORMAT

The fact that Epic does not support SVG yet should not prevent you from
using SVG files in outputs that *do* support SVG, such as HTML for
browsers with SVG-viewer plug-ins You can write an XSLT transform to
change the file extension on graphic filenames from whatever to .svg.
As long as the svg filename exists, it will work.
Doing this for PDF would be fairly difficult, because of Epic's internal
code for conversion of XML/SGML to PostScript.
Of course, this would probably require the maintaining of duplicate
filenames with different extensions, at least for a little while until
Epic supports SVG directly.
I know it's not as simple as it would be if Epic supported SVG directly,
but it could be done for certain outputs, if necessary.
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Re: EPIC AND SVG FORMAT

Not to speak out of turn (or speak for Arbortext) but I recently received
an email regarding 5.0 capabilities (we are already on maintenance and
will receive the upgrade) and SVG.

The gist is that Epic 5.0 will support viewing SVG graphics (uses the
Batik Java engine). The composition support will generate bitmaps for
printing
and will either pass the SVG through or convert them to PNG for HTML
delivery.

For further clarification and amplification, (as I know not what I do) it
would be nice if someone from Arbortext would weigh in on this topic.

Regards all,

Bob Williams
Bristol RI, USA
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Re: EPIC AND SVG FORMAT

I'll be interested to hear from Arbortext on this, as well. I
sincerely hope that Epic 5.0 composition will NOT generate bitmaps for
printing, but rather convert the SVG, a vector format, into Postscript
or EPS, also vector formats, so that the full quality can be maintained.
The golden rule of vector graphics is to only convert to bitmap at the
very last moment when you absolutely have to.
Regarding Lynn's comments, I'd like to say that our Navy customer
has been very open to our use of SVG in new projects. It is my personal
belief that SVG is quite stable, having been standardized for some time.
Yes, there are new versions in the works, but these are enhancements,
not rewrites. The vendor support is very good, led by the efforts of
companies such as Adobe, Corel and IBM.

-Brandon 🙂
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Re: EPIC AND SVG FORMAT



Ed,

Not entirely true.

I agree the most common use of SVG graphics is probably for "intelligent"
graphic applications
such as in 3-D modelling or in on-line documentation where you want the
user to be able to manually
manipulate the view so as to get a different perspective of the object.

However, I have seen demonstrations using SVG graphics where the
application was able to read the
tagged graphical information inside say a pie chart and on-the-fly convert
it into a text-based object
such as a table.

This kind of fucntionality, which of course, can always be included in your
publishing workflow as an
additional processing step, would sure be nice if included directly within
the initial formatting engine,
especially when having to publish to multiple delivery media such as paper
and on-line.

Michael W. Woods
SGML Systems Architect

|---------+---------------------------->
| | "Benton, Ed L" |
| | <ed.l.benton@lmco|<br/>| | .com> |
| | Sent by: |
| | owner-adepters@ar|
| | bortext.com |
| | |
| | |
| | 02/19/2004 07:48 |
| | AM |
| | Please respond to|
| | adepters |
| | |
|---------+---------------------------->
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Re: EPIC AND SVG FORMAT

We did not officially support SVG before the 5.0 release, but we will be
supporting this graphic format in 5.0. In first release, our support
involves converting to a bitmap for both editor display and for
composition. Maintaining SVG graphics as vectors in PostScript and PDF
is something we will be looking at in a future release.

For people who want to get started now or who won't be able to upgrade
to 5.0 for a long time, it is possible to display SVG graphics in recent
versions of Epic Editor with some programming. Registered users of
support.arbortext.com should be able to find a zip file containing
example code underneath Customizations. This example was developed using
Epic 4.2.1.

The core of the solution is to use the graphicspathhook. This hook is
normally used to let you put a graphic in a different location than what
the file reference says. Similar to the graphics path but allows you to
use ACL if you need something more powerful than the graphic path. In
the hook routine, check if the reference is to an SVG file and if so
convert the SVG file to something Epic supports and write it to in a
graphics cache directory. Then use the name from the graphics cache
directory as the returned value from the hook. Of course, telling if you
are displaying the graphic or using the graphic in composition so you
can use different resolutions, cleaning up the graphics cache directory
so you don't waste disk space, and other such details make this an
interesting challenge.

Even people who are not interested in SVG but are interested in other
graphic formats that we don't currently support may find this example
useful. The basic concept can be used to support other formats as long
as you have available a Java class library, a COM library, or a .dll
that can do transformations between the graphic format you have and a
graphic format Epic supports.

John Dreystadt
Director of Product Management
Arbortext

Subscribe to the XML Publishing Network today! Sent monthly via email,
XPN provides continual news and information about XML publishing,
single sourcing and content management. To subscribe, go to
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Re: EPIC AND SVG FORMAT

John,
Thanks for the details on the 5.0 support. My question has to
do with the ActiveX support in Epic. Earlier versions, such as 4.3,
have support in the DCF file to instantiate ActiveX objects for certain
elements. The limitation, as I understand it, is that the ActiveX
object can not render inline in the document, but must appear in a
separate window. With this limitation removed, it should be possible to
embed something like the Adobe SVG Viewer ActiveX control right into the
document, much as can be done in Internet Explorer, and have full SVG
capabilities right in the editor, both eliminating the need for a
conversion to bitmap as well as making possible animations and
interactions with the user and, with some scripting, the document that
references the SVG.
So, in summary, which version of Epic lifts the "no inline
ActiveX objects" limitation?

-Brandon 🙂
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Re: EPIC AND SVG FORMAT

Epic Editor 4.4 allows you to have an inline XUI panel with an ActiveX
control as the only contents. That gives you interactivity in the Editor
but is still not a solution for PostScript or PDF unfortunately.

John Dreystadt
Director of Product Management
Arbortext

Subscribe to the XML Publishing Network today! Sent monthly via email,
XPN provides continual news and information about XML publishing,
single sourcing and content management. To subscribe, go to
http://www.arbortext.com/xpn1. You can also view past issues of XPN at
this site.

> So, in summary, which version of Epic lifts the "no
> inline ActiveX objects" limitation?
>
> -Brandon 🙂
>


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SVG in 5.3 problem

Hi,

I want to use SVG as a format, but during testing I found that some information is lost once the SVG file is linked to the appropriate element in Epic. Once composed for PDF or web, this problem persists. One specific example: I have some SVGs created in Visio. The connecting arrows (they're flows) have no or reduced arrow ends once in Epic. The problem is not related to the SVG itself, because it shows fine in IE with the Adobe SVG viewer.

Anyone who can help?

Thanks,
Wouter
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