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Cable Assemblies (Methods)

wfalco
15-Moonstone

Cable Assemblies (Methods)

All,

 

How is everyone doing cable assemblies? If you were to document many cable assemblies, would it merit the use of Creo cabling module or RSD? BTW - is RSD the actual better choice? I have only played with the cabling module. I do have my issues with it. No experience with RSD.

 

I'd prefer to NOT do drawings in 2D.

 

Perhaps simply using pipe feature? Or other methods other than using additional modules?

 

Please share your experiences, successes and failures.

 

Thanks,

 

WayneF

1 ACCEPTED SOLUTION

Accepted Solutions

Pro/DIAGRAM and Creo Schematics (Routed Systems Designer) both created schematics, but came from different sources. DIAGRAM has pretty much been dead for a long time (over a decade) since PTC focused on RSD.

 

Creo Schematics is 2D, so there's no 3D routing done there, only planning. Creo Schematics tells you what to route, Creo Parametric does the actual routing, taking minimum bend radius into account, generating your harness run lengths for you.

Dave Martin - dmartin@creowindchill.com - https://www.mcaeconsulting.com

View solution in original post

20 REPLIES 20

Whether or not you use Creo Schematics (formerly known as Routed Systems Design or RSD) depends on the complexity and quantity of your cable harnesses. Creo Schematics provides the most benefit when you're mapping out your system, as well as reusing pre-defined wire- and cable- spools and connectors.

I hear of people using sweeps to represent cables, but it ends up being a lot of work mapping out the routes with 3D curves.

Dave Martin - dmartin@creowindchill.com - https://www.mcaeconsulting.com

Also, I would love to never have to do a 2D drawing for cables, but until MBD supports tables, you're probably going to have to make drawings to document cable harnesses, to capture the BOMs and From-To harness runs.

Dave Martin - dmartin@creowindchill.com - https://www.mcaeconsulting.com
wfalco
15-Moonstone
(To:DaveMartin)

Dave,

 

Oh...no wonder I was seeing old you tube stuff for RSD. The name has changed. So there is a cable module AND something called Creo Scematics? I take it Creo Scematics is a stand-alone? And your saying it is more complete than Creo cabling as far as spools and libraries? Would you use one or the other - or in conjuction with each other? I have dabbled with this stuff - but very much a newbie.

 

Yeah, the other option of simple pipe is doable. It needs to be enabled in Creo. But...I would not get a fan out. This is my end need. Showing it in position would be a great thing for tech manuals.

 

Wayne

Creo Schematics and Creo Parametric are separate interfaces. Creo Schematics is the optional precursor to routing 3D cables in Creo Parametric.

 

Creo Schematics is like a planning tool. You can use it to create high level Block Diagrams of your system. You can also create Wiring Diagrams that define your components, connectors, wires, and cables.

 

Then using a process called Logical Referencing, you can transfer the information from Creo Schematics to Creo Parametric via XML to automate much of the wiring process - designating connectors, creating spools, and autorouting cables via a network.

 

Creo Schematics is not necessary for 3D routing of cables. If you system is relatively uncomplicated, with few cables, you can do it entirely manually. Schematics can be helpful when you're trying to define cables for an entire system like a vehicle or a complicated mechanism.

Dave Martin - dmartin@creowindchill.com - https://www.mcaeconsulting.com

 

 

wfalco
15-Moonstone
(To:DaveMartin)

YOU are the man Dave!

 

So Creo Schematics was Diagram? Or is it not that either? I do get the logical stuff. I took a class back on Pro/e 18?...ha ha. So if one wants to plan out with schematics one would use both Creo Schematics and Crep Parametric Cable. Correct? You do NOT physically route cables in Creo Schematics. Correct?

 

Having the schematic would be awesome. But may not be required as you have said.

 

BTW - I just went over flattening tutorial part. Will be trying soon.

 

Thanks!

Wayne

Pro/DIAGRAM and Creo Schematics (Routed Systems Designer) both created schematics, but came from different sources. DIAGRAM has pretty much been dead for a long time (over a decade) since PTC focused on RSD.

 

Creo Schematics is 2D, so there's no 3D routing done there, only planning. Creo Schematics tells you what to route, Creo Parametric does the actual routing, taking minimum bend radius into account, generating your harness run lengths for you.

Dave Martin - dmartin@creowindchill.com - https://www.mcaeconsulting.com
wfalco
15-Moonstone
(To:DaveMartin)

great answer!

BillF
13-Aquamarine
(To:wfalco)

Diagram is a seperate entitiy from Schematics.  It allowed people to enter connector and wire information that created tables for harness manufacturing and transfered the data to Creo Parametric's routing program.  Then the people doing the 3D work can create the routing for the models and get the dimensions for the harness manufacturing.

We used another software package (predating our use of Diagram) to sketch schematics for the design.  The sketch was then hand translated to the harness diagram.  Diagram replaced the previously used predecessor for the translation to a harness diagram and to get the data into Parametric.

Creo Schematics now replaces our sketching tool and Diagram (which is scheduled to be removed from Creo in the next revision) to draw the schematic and intelligently create the wiring diagram.  It then creates the xml file to transfer that information to Parametric for the 3D routing.

We use a hybrid system in Schematics where we skip a step by placing components for the schematic in the wiring diagram page and connect wires between the items instead of "cloud" connections for circuits.  The big difference is that we explicitly show splices and daisy chained terminals along with actual connection points of the wires.  We have the connectors already applied to the components so that we skip the steps of converting the schematic to a wiring diagram (Schematics has routines that still are much better than doing that by hand) and it is ready to export (with connectors and terminals specified) as soon as the last wire is laid out and the terminator routine is run.

wfalco
15-Moonstone
(To:BillF)

Bill,

 

Wow. You guys got it going on. I hope I can use you for help being the newbie that I am. Not sure what degree I want to take this. But it's all pretty interesting. Thanks for the great response!

 

Wayne

BillF
13-Aquamarine
(To:wfalco)

We are relative beginners compared to the big users but remember some of the confusion.  There are a few large companies that have been using this for many years and have finely tuned systems going.  We have one administrator/librarian (me, with some support duties for other software also), one part time librarian, and about ten people who are responsible for the schematics and basic harness design, and two that do the 3D routing and then hand off the final harness to a few drafters to be detailed for the vendors.


What we are doing is not "as designed by PTC" for Schematics.  We got into this because the old software that we were using (and some still are) was declared obsolete 10 years ago by its maker. 

It has taken a lot of work with the help of a consultant to get where we are and some people are trying to stick with the awkward system that they have been working with for 15-20 years.  They know it well and it is a learning curve plus extra work when they need to convert old designs to go to Schematics, even though it will save them work in the long term.

I was brought into this after the decisions were made and there were misunderstandings of some of the people that this is how the base program works.

It can be used in the as designed with a lot less work for setting it up and the revisions to Version 4 have improved its ease of use in that mode (draw a schematic, aka CID - convert to a wiring diagram, aka WID) using two steps.

Our consultant asked me a number of times as I was suggesting more data attachment to save work for the designers, "this will mean more work for the librarian, do you want to do that?"  My answer is:  the extra work for the administrator and librarian is one time for each item, the designer will get the benefits every time they use it.

wfalco
15-Moonstone
(To:BillF)

We can't seem to get a librarian. I would not mind taking that on. Yes...put in all the hooks and make everyone's life easier.

wfalco
15-Moonstone
(To:DaveMartin)

Maybe I'm doing something wrong. I designated connectors and ports. When I go to flatten and add components its greyed out. Any ideas?

Does the cable routing show that they are complete (route all the way to the connector entry ports)? The Model Tree symbols should not appear as if they are broken.

Dave Martin - dmartin@creowindchill.com - https://www.mcaeconsulting.com
wfalco
15-Moonstone
(To:DaveMartin)

It seems ok.

 

I realized we had harness manufacturing module. Not sure why that's separate. I ran that and it says I have incomplete routes. Makes no sense to me.

When you were routing the cables, did you select the designated entry ports (coordinate systems) of the connectors as the start and end points? And you saw that the cable was indeed routed in your model? As far as the cable spool goes, as long as you define a thickness and minimum bend radius, you're pretty much good to go.

 

I'd have to see the assembly to figure out what's wrong.

Dave Martin - dmartin@creowindchill.com - https://www.mcaeconsulting.com
wfalco
15-Moonstone
(To:DaveMartin)

OK. I went back and looked and I was NOT using CSO's to and from. I know I did originally. But then I added locations after using  axis. This must have changed the origin the axis somehow??? So I redifined to use cso's. What's nice is I can pick the connector and a port list appears to select from. When I went back to the mfg harness it regen'd and was gone. I tried to redo...but had issue with creating start points. I made a new mfg harness. It works. It flattened and assemble all was available and worked. Except...1 wire to connector. It would not fan out. I am attaching. If you can take a look and give me some tips that would be awesome. By the way I tryed Mfg harness mod under applications. It works great. But it also has a problem with the one wire.

wfalco
15-Moonstone
(To:wfalco)

I just added another wire and it seems to be working. I am noting that the radii need to be carefully chosen. I will keep toyying with it. it's a nice simple assy to work with.

If you're referring to minimum bend radius, yes, that has a huge effect on routing. Depending on how the wires or cables are manufactured, you can choose what kind of value to use, between 2X and 8X of the cable thickness.

Dave Martin - dmartin@creowindchill.com - https://www.mcaeconsulting.com
wfalco
15-Moonstone
(To:DaveMartin)

Thanks again Dave. That's a reasonable guideline to stick with.

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