Creo 4 needs this detailing change

[jwaffensmith]

We design and manufacture molds and die assemblies with lots of holes. We use an ordinate scheme to dimension these holes. unfortunately we have holes close to other holes and the leaders don't automatically adjust when they are close so we have to add jogs manually. If we change the hole location the leader needs to be adjusted again. Solid works does it and our seats of Cadkey 97 does it. this would save us gobs of time per year. Who else has this problem?

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[AmitDeshpande]

Hi Jeff,

Unfortunately, there isn't a way to create automatic jogs for the dimensions, currently.  I will email the Product Manager and see if there are any plans to add this functionality into Creo Parametric 4.0.

I'll reply back here once I hear back with some additional information.

Thanks,

Amit

[jwaffensmith]

Thanks Amit, It seems like it would fit nicely in the "cleanup dimension" function.  If they couldn't just get it to do it automatically like in my cadkey from 1992.

[mender]

While clean dims doesn't attempt this, I believe we do make jogs under automatic ordinate dimensioning (for sheetmetal and for mold).  It's been a while since I've looked at it.  You may want to consider if it would fit your needs.

[jwaffensmith]

Correct Auto Ordinate will give you jogs.  Unfortunately when you use the tool it dimensions every possible dimension point and gives you nice clean jogs.  Its the every possible dimension point that is the issue.  you can delete the ones you don't need but that takes more time than putting the jogs in.  I was able to do this in 1995 in CADKEY it shouldn't be a hard thing to fix.

[STEVEG]

This should be a no-brainer.  If CADKEY can do it in the early to mid '90's then why can't Creo do it almost 1/4 of a century later?

[jnelson]

Careful what you wish for.

As someone else responded, there is this functionality/capability in Sheetmetal, however, (in my opinion) this capability requires much more time cleaning up the results then it is worth…

The attached picture is something I created quickly in CREO 3 to show an example.

This is a relatively small part with a small amount of holes, but you can see from this example how the default behavior is.

Now, imagine a much larger part with a lot more holes and/or other cut features.

[jwaffensmith]

Right since it dimensions everything possible you get a real mess.  Then once you shift some holes around everything is all messed up again.  If you try and use the clean up dimension tool it doesn't do a thing to clean up an ordinate with messed up jogs..  you have to do it all manually or delete and start over.  Horrible.

[jwaffensmith]

I just did a trial in Solidworks and they have a re-jog command that reshuffles the ordinate after another dimension is added or if the design is altered.  This reinforces my thinking that any clean up tool belongs in the "cleanup dimension" tool.  if I remember correct Cadkey had a similar tool back in 1997

[dschenken]

Have you looked at hole tables?

[jwaffensmith]

no I have not would that provide a coordinate location and description?

[dschenken]

Yes. They are right under the Table menu and are based on whatever coordinate system you select as the origin of the dims in the table. This is what is used for putting the hundreds to thousands of holes in circuit boards. No one (sane) makes jogged dims for manufacture of circuit boards.

[jwaffensmith]

Ill check that out thanks for the tip.

[jwaffensmith]

Tasty,  This might be very helpful,  thank you!

[STEVEG]

I did a quick search but didn't see anyone put in a product idea.  That should be added to be voted on.

[RaphaelCNascime · Accepted solution]

I agree that it would be a good enhancement to have the clean dims command include the possibility of automatically adding or adjusting the jogs for ordinate dimensions. We can definitely look at this in the future.

I would suggest creating an Idea so we can keep track of the suggestion and also see how popular such an option would be among the users in the Community.

[jwaffensmith]

I will try and submit it then. I didn't know there was such a portal.

[jwaffensmith]

Where is this place where you can submit ideas?

[RaphaelCNascime]

If you go to the main PTC Creo link in the menu at the top of the page, you'll see Create a product idea on the right side.

[STEVEG]

Raphael,

I would hope this idea would be added despite whether it's a popular one or not.  It could be just me but it seems like it should be there no matter what.

[jwaffensmith]

Yea you would think and we keep thinking that it will be changed with every new build but alas we are still waiting.

[RaphaelCNascime]

Steve,

Of course! This is a good idea and we certainly wouldn't base a decision on whether to do it or not solely on the popularity of an idea on the community site.

One thing that we're trying to do a better job at in general is responding to the ideas with a status so that the whole community can be kept apprised of the progress. That kind of "closed loop" process is the main reason for my asking for the idea in this case.

[STEVEG]

That is exciting to hear Raphael.  Thank you!

[jme]

Wrong.

All this chatter about a simple idea on cleaning up a ordinate dimensions shouldn't even be up for discussion, it should be done..   PTC need to get their heads out of the hole and just implement this feature to make it easier for engineers to use their s/w.  I've read issues people are still having ten years ago that don't seem to be addressed an implemented- some are crazy ideas but most are one that would beneficial.

Here's one.. make the drafting model more intuitive to use... .. no?  okay.. they watch users go to your competition, because companies are not going to go through the economic hardship of paying for 2 weeks of training if s/w is out there that doesn't require a steep learning curve to do basic things.. all one has to do is go onto any job board read open ME position.. .. "Must know SolidWorks"  "Must know Inventor"   PTC needs to revamp the entire CREO package.. make it easier to use.. with minimal training.. change your business model s/w or die like

Blockbuster Video, Wang, Eastern airline, and hosts of others.

[dschenken]

If Solidworks and Inventor are completely intuitive, why would anyone require prospective employees to 'Must know' them?

I did find an interesting hole in the hole-table chart. As far as I can tell it works OK, both for holes and cylindrical cuts. What it doesn't handle is -ready?- Slots. Which I think is more a comment on those people who used Slots to make cylindrical holes, but an oversight on the part of the Hole Table intern that did it as part of his summer at PTC (just guessing.)

Hole tables also handle Axes, which is weird, because why would one look at a Hole Table menu/icon and think Axes? And Datum points. Since they have no sizes and already have tags, Creo doesn't create flags for either Points or Axes.

One thing is for certain - PTC needs a UI czar. That's what Apple had when Jobs was in charge. They still have some $65 Billion in cash. Maybe UI is important.

[fdefilippi]

"If Solidworks and Inventor are completely intuitive, why would anyone require prospective employees to 'Must know' them?"

Because companies do not want the overhead cost of training employees, if you don't know the s/w enough they move on to other candidates; which is one of the top interviewing questions.  

The company I'm at didn't ask me that interview question because they thought CAD was CAD and if you know one you know them all, they figured.   Boy were they wrong!! so what use to take minutes and hours to do in SWX/ Inventor/ Solid Edge  takes much much longer with futzing around watching youtube videos and posting questions.  My employer now realizes the complexity of the s/w, but still don't want to pay for training, I was asked last week "..so if we bought you the tools you used in the past would it help you" 

This is the reason for "Must know"

[RonSt.Pierre]

If the company bought the tools you use in the past, of course it would help you.

the bigger questions:

   - would it help the company?

   - do you need training?

You see stuff posted all over sites like LinkedIn with comments like:

  Train your people so they can find a job anywhere, treat them right so they don't leave.

Where is your company's priority?

   That is the question you need to be asking of yourself.

[jme]

This a viscous circle. "what if we train them and they quit?"  "What if we don't train them and they stay"

Only time I've seen a company send employs out for CAD training is when some pin head executive decided to switch the CAD programs.  The whole engineering department had 50% drop in productivity and forced the company to send 3 people at a time for 1 week training.. it took 4 months to recoup

[James62]

It depends on what you do on daily basis. I find Creo to be a really great automation tool.

It tends to be pretty hard to design anything from scratch with Creo unless you have some setup and automation already in place, but once you take the time to set it up and put all the pieces together then it gets things done much faster than the other CAD tools, even the dreadfull drawings.

Anyway, for discussions like this one use this section of the forum: The PTCooler

[BenLoosli]

When a prior company switched from UG-V16/V18 to Pro/E Wildfire, we trained 45 engineers for 15 days of training minimum and some got an additional week or 2 depending on their job function. Five years later they were retrained to use CATIA as the original parent company sold that division to a company that had standardized on CATIA.

Yes, it was unusual, but I told upper management that if you don't train them, you will lose a year or more of product development time due to productivity loss. Even with the training, we saw a 3-6 month drop in productivity for some of the engineers. The engineers put a bucket in the middle of their work area and tossed a nickel in every time they cussed at the software, they had donuts every Friday for a while.