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Config option to ONLY save imported images in drawings to the drawing. AKA embed

Config option to ONLY save imported images in drawings to the drawing. AKA embed

1. Describe your environment: What is your industry? What is your role in your organization? Describe your stakeholders.
Auto
Design Engineer
Auto manufacturers 


2. What version of Creo Parametric are you currently running?
7.0.3.0

3. Describe the problem you are trying to solve. Please include detailed documentation such as screenshots, images or video.

https://www.ptc.com/en/blogs/cad/adding-images-to-engineering-drawings-made-easy
The function of placing images in drawing with the built is image tool does not work out of the box as intended and the fix is a workaround with undesirable effects.

I'll define work.
Import image to DRW, save. The image should always stay visible in the DRW but it is not. File is only linked so the separate image file has to be in same dir(maybe, did not test) or in texture folder(texture_search_path). Image is not a texture though. Send DRW to someone They open it and see a black box instead of an image,

 

Import image to DRW, check in to Windchill. again the image is lost because its a separate file.   

 

The workaround for this is to set "SAVE_TEXTURE_WITH_MODEL YES" but, having that saves all textures to model as well saving the pictures to the DRW. PTC needs to decouple these. Usually you do not want to save all textures to models and bloat up model files. I tried toggling on SAVE_TEXTURE_WITH_MODEL saving pictures to DRW, works, check in ok, and prints well. I then toggled off the setting and checked out the drw again, moved the image , resized it. Then tested its printing/windchill PDF. Poof all gone. SAVE_TEXTURE_WITH_MODEL would have to be set to YES all the time to work. Not sure that is good with all the ramifications that could cause other issues. Which means back to OLE Object import/create new with Paintbrush(aka MSpaint) in session. OLE option offers no aspect ratio lock and not much for features in general. 

 

Note default setting is "SAVE_TEXTURE_WITH_MODEL NO"

 

A new config option specific to the drawing image tool could make the image tool PTC is showing off in the linked video usable without side effects that are undesirable.

 

Suggestion:

DRAWING_IMAGE_IMPORT_EMBED YES*
YES* - Saves/Embeds images imported to the drawing into the drawing file
NO - Does not save/embed images in drawings to the drawing file


4. What is the use case for your organization?
Proper function of the tool in CREO as shown in the promo video.

Used for images as shown in promo and for putting a supplier drawing picture/PDF inside a title block.


The new image tool has desirable functions, namely aspect ratio lock. However, can not use the tool because "SAVE_TEXTURE_WITH_MODEL YES" is not something wanted for all models. Use of the older OLE to embed images is still the go to option but, that tool lacks aspect ratio lock, transparency, and more.

5. What business value would your suggestion represent for your organization?
Productivity increase - easy use of the image tool that has been pushed to the front by default
Training decrease - Do not have to explain to new and old users why the new image tool can not be used
Problem/Error decrease - Do no have to spend time fixing DRWs saved to Windchill over years that are missing images. 

Make the "MADE EASY" part of the promo video true.

21 Comments
TomU
23-Emerald III
Yes please!!!!
olivierlp
Community Manager
Status changed to: Acknowledged

Thank you @BG_9849104 for your very well documented idea. Based on the information you provided, we are acknowledging it as the Community management team. This is not a commitment from the Product team. Other users may comment and vote your idea up.

Mfridman
15-Moonstone

Hi @BG_9849104 

If I am getting this correctly, you would always want to have the images that are embedded in the object to be saved ONLY with that object, right?

In other words you want to decouple the drawing from the model and have the following layout:

  •  The current option "SAVE_TEXTURE_WITH_MODEL YES" to be used for the embedding of images in models ONLY
  • A new config option that will be relevant for drawings only and would define whether the image is going to be imbedded with the drawing file or not at all

Can you please elaborate what issues do you currently see with the textures being saved with the model instead of the drawing, after all when loading a drawing the model is anyway required to be loaded.

Is it because this option requires a revision bump for the model when you save the drawing and embed an image? other?

 

Thanks,

Michael Fridman

Creo Product Management 

TomU
23-Emerald III

@Mfridman,


...after all when loading a drawing the model is anyway required to be loaded.

That's only true if the model contains a drawing.  What about adding adding images to a drawing template where no model is present?

 

Fundamentally images added to drawings should be stored with (embedded into) the drawing without any additional configuration.  This should be the default behavior out-of-the-box, and other config options related to other things (like textures) should have no impact on it.  People expect to be able to add an image to a drawing and then send that drawing to someone else and still have the image be there.  Can you image creating a Microsoft Word document or Excel file and need to also send along every picture you used in the file separately?  It would be exceedingly frustrating and probably missed by the majority of users.  Creo Parametric should be no different.

 

Mfridman
15-Moonstone

Thank you @TomU 

I completely understand your POV and especially for the template type drawings that have no model involved.

While I was not around when this option was first introduced, I am assuming that some customers did not always wanted to embed the texture with their model/drawing and just wanted to use it from a central location.

I am trying to understand now what those use cases were for the alternative way (by not embedding).

Could it be only from a file size considerations ? other workflows?

While I agree with you that most users might want to always embed the images with the drawing, I want to make sure that we are fully aware of all workflows

 

TomU
23-Emerald III

I wonder if the developer went this route for drawing images simply because they already had a method for embedding images used by textures.  I don't think changing the default behavior is a problem, as long as it's clearly documented in the release notes or "what's new".

BG_9849104
12-Amethyst

Everything @TomU said. We seem to be on the same page.

Now back to @Mfridman

If I am getting this correctly, you would always want to have the images that are embedded in the DRAWING to be saved ONLY with that DRAWING, right?

In other words you want to decouple the drawing SETTING from the model SETTING and have the following layout:

  •  The current option "SAVE_TEXTURE_WITH_MODEL YES" to be used for the embedding of images(Saves the texture images applied to the model or the walls of the room with the model and the scene.) in models ONLY
  • A new config option that will be relevant for drawings only and would define whether the image is going to be imbedded with the drawing file(optionally model file if present, see below) or not at all

Can you please elaborate what issues do you currently see with the textures being saved with the model instead of the drawing, after all when loading a drawing the model is anyway required to be loaded.
Drawing that has no model(which works with SAVE_TEXTURE_WITH_MODEL YES, so it must embedding the image in the DRW anyway NOT THE MODEL)
SAVE_TEXTURE_WITH_MODEL YES must be set all the time currently for the images to work in drawings. This adds the undesired affect that images used in models files will now be saved into the model and increase the file size. Not great for Windchill. 

Is it because this option requires a revision bump for the model when you save the drawing and embed an image? other?
No. It is because I do not want images and scenes to be saved to the models. Back to the DRW, like TomU said the expected functionality is like a powerpoint slide. If I place an image on the slide and send it to someone it better be there on the slide when they open it without sending external files. The files have to be embed to lock the revision. 

The images used in the DRW could embed in similar fashion as they do now but, I do not think this is the best way. (which I think is due to MBD ideas)
If no model in drawing embed the image to the DRW
If model in drawing embed the image to the model

The key part of this idea is to decouple the saving of images used in the modeling environment from the saving of images used in the drawing environment.

I think it is best if Drawing images are embedded to the DRW file always.
The counter point here is MBD which by definition wants that image saved to the model. To achieve that another config option would be useful. Package the 2 up and ship it. I marked my opinion of 1 vote for defaults with * below

DRAWING_IMAGE_OWNED_BY_MODEL NO*
Defines whether the default destination of a image placed in the drawing environment is embedded to drawing or top model
NO* - Default destination is the drawing.
YES - Default destination is the top model.

 

DRAWING_IMAGE_IMPORT_EMBED YES*
YES* - Saves/Embeds images imported to the drawing to location set by DRAWING_IMAGE_OWNED_BY_MODEL
NO - Does not save/embed images


kdirth
18-Opal

@Mfridman,

 

From my (and the company) point of view.  we want to control when "textures" are saved in the file. 

 

We sometimes add supplier prints to our drawings as images, considered a texture in Creo, as a way to control purchased parts and give our inspection team easy access to the part requirements.  Saving these images with the drawing file requires setting the config to YES.  

 

We often times get sketches, with outlines and cross sections, from our industrial designer or customers' industrial designer, which we add to the model to model parts and make our sketches from.  These images should not be saved with the model to ensure that proprietary data does not get out with the model.  This requires the config to be set to NO. 

 

Currently, we keep the config set to NO and change it to save a drawing with an image.  I created a mapkey to set the config to YES, save the drawing, then change the config to NO.  A separate config for images in drawings would be appreciated.

Mfridman
15-Moonstone

Thanks @BG_9849104  and @kdirth  for your comments. this is helpful. 

It is clear that no matter where you decide where would save the image, there should still be a setting to allow you also not to save it all and look for the central location. it seems that there are some use cases for this as well

 

@BG_9849104  regarding your comments about the MBD consideration, this point is actually not clear for me and I hope that you can help me understand: 

Typically in a MBD workflow you would want to add all the data artifacts directly the model itself and then if really needed, just show it on the drawing too.

 

I did got in the past the request to be able to manage images with combination states and in this case it might be required to support them also in the show model annotations command, so that they could be shown in the drawing. Achieving this way would go along the lines of what we are doing for annotations. 

 

However with your suggestion for:

DRAWING_IMAGE_OWNED_BY_MODEL NO*
Defines whether the default destination of a image placed in the drawing environment is embedded to drawing or top model
NO* - Default destination is the drawing.
YES - Default destination is the top model.

 

It would be a reverse workflow to what I typically see for MBD, where you add an image in the drawing and then only save it with the model. this would not show the image in MBD, it would only save it with the model file. 

Why would you prefer to save the drawing image with the model in this case?

What is the benefit for MBD for this reverse workflow? 

 

TomU
23-Emerald III

If an image is added to a drawing, it should be saved with the drawing.

If an image is added to a model, it should be saved with the model, regardless of whether or not it's visible in the drawing.

Mfridman
15-Moonstone

Thanks @TomU this is clear, however this is not what @BG_9849104  suggested with his suggestion and I would like to understand the reason behind having the ability to place an image in a drawing (which have model views) and in that case have the ability to save it with the model instead of the drawing only 

 

 

 

BG_9849104
12-Amethyst

Reverse workflow is present for other features like gtols with 
default_gtol_owned_by_model

Having a setting to decide the owner of the image could maintain legacy functionality workflow and give option for the new function.

If workflow is to have MBD ready models and a 2D drawing(transitional period years in the making) then only one image should be saved and that should be in the model. The image should be accessible for composite state and to be shown in the 2d drawing.

If the setup only has ability to shows images in drawing that are placed in the drawing then saved to the drawing the model has no access to the image to display in a composite state. So, to have the model complete MBD the image would have to also be saved to the model separately leading to double dimensioning. where you have to update the same thing in two places which is bad. Years later how is Joe Smith to know they have to separately update the same image in two locations. That is bad. There a lot of it depends cases.

 

These type of options allow the function to be the same as today or be the new function I am asking or function the way TomU said. Can be set to many different user workflows.

DRAWING_IMAGE_OWNED_BY_MODEL
NO* - Default destination is the drawing.
YES - Default destination is the top model.

DRAWING_IMAGE_IMPORT_EMBED
YES* - Saves/Embeds images imported to the drawing to location set by DRAWING_IMAGE_OWNED_BY_MODEL
NO - Does not save/embed images

TomU
23-Emerald III

@Mfridman,

When SAVE_TEXTURE_WITH_MODEL = YES, the texture image files are embedded into, and saved with the model.  What about images added to drawings?  With this same config option set to yes, are images added to a drawing actually saved with the drawing, or are they pushed into the parent model?  I was under the impression that they were actually being saved inside the drawing, but that it took an unrelated, model-specific config option to get them to do so.

 

I'll probably disagree with @BG_9849104 on this, but I don't think something manually added to a drawing should be saved to the model (ever! - including GTOLs.)   This can lead to all kinds of unintended consequences when someone is intentionally creating multiple (different) drawings of the same model.  Tables, symbols, images, etc. should all be stored in the CAD object they were added to.  I would fully expect to need to re-add them to the model if we ever decide to get rid of drawings and wanted to recreate the same information in the model.

BG_9849104
12-Amethyst

@TomU I do not disagree with you. I do not want to save back to the model but I formed the idea so that the current functionality is still present if  wanted.

I would set the save destination of drawing images to the drawing and set them to be embed by default.

I would have to test save location of image embed when a model is present. The tests I did before this idea post were with drawing file only, no model associated with the drawing. In that test the images were embedding into the DRW file.

BG_9849104
12-Amethyst

SAVE_TEXTURE_WITH_MODEL is saving the images added in drawing environment to the drawing in the case with a PRT model associated with the DRW 

kdirth
18-Opal

A checkbox to embed the image in the drawing (or part/assembly) when placing the image would also be helpful to override the default setting when needed.

TomU
23-Emerald III

I just did a quick test, and the behavior is what I would expect.  Images added to the model are saved inside the model and images added to the drawing are saved inside the drawing.  Images added to a drawing are not being stored inside the parent model.

 

In my opinion, where the images are currently saved is fine, it's just that turning it on requires enabling an unrelated, model-specific config option.  'save_texture_with_model' should really only control model textures and 'embed_imported_images' should be added to control where images imported with the Images command are stored (and it should default to 'yes'.)

BG_9849104
12-Amethyst

There are images and textures in models. In model environment can apply an image as a texture to a part or can use the image tool to place an image in the model.

If there is one across the board 'embed_imported_images' that would imply models images would save to model and drawing images would save to drawing. 

That would not decouple the saving. Back to the key point
The key part of this idea is to decouple the saving of images used in the modeling environment from the saving of images used in the drawing environment.

BG_9849104
12-Amethyst

@kdirth an override would be nice. Designate check box per image to embed in the file. That would be a welcome GUI addition for the ribbon. 

TomU
23-Emerald III

@BG_9849104,

Is there any need/desire to decouple model textures from model images?  I thought it would be clearer if imported images using the image tool were treated separately from textures in both the drawing and the model.  Would it be better if it was called 'embed_image_tool_images'?

BG_9849104
12-Amethyst

Would not matter the name. 
Do not want model images saved

Want DRW images saved

 

I have no need to decouple model texture and model images. Not the decoupling I am talking about. Somebody else might though. I can imagine wanting model textures embedded but not model images that are used in some workflows as mentioned in previous comments.

 

'embed_image_tool_images' 'embed_imported_images' both sound like they would apply to models and drawings. Would want the setting set to no for model and yes for drawing.

 

To give all the functions:

SAVE_TEXTURE_WITH_MODEL NO

SAVE_IMAGES_WITH_MODEL NO

DRAWING_IMAGES_EMBED YES

 

OR this feature request only

SAVE_TEXTURE_WITH_MODEL NO (with this still applying to textures and images in models)

DRAWING_IMAGES_EMBED YES