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Creo for Linux - again!

Creo for Linux - again!

1. Describe your environment: What is your industry? What is your role in your organization? Describe your stakeholders.
Engineering R&D


2. What version of Creo Parametric are you currently running?
8

3. Describe the problem you are trying to solve. Please include detailed documentation such as screenshots, images or video.
We do a lot of high-end development work, all our tools run in Linux except PTC Creo Parametric, which is the only thing that keeps us in Windows. We would prefer Linux for a myriad different reasons.

4. What is the use case for your organization?
I don't even understand this question. What do we use Creo for? CAD.

5. What business value would your suggestion represent for your organization?
Not having to swap between computers, reboot between systems, run stuff in VMs. Not having to airgap Windows development PCs to prevent telemetry and other threats to our privacy and national security.

This is not a small issue. We are doing secret things of a nature I am not allowed to disclose. Windows is a point of contention for us.

15 Comments
T_F
16-Pearl
16-Pearl

CREO should be possible to run in linux stations. Linux is a very stable platform (more than windows), and also high capabilities.

BenLoosli
23-Emerald II

PTC did have Wildfire and Creo running on Linux. It was dropped because the demand was not there to justify the expense of maintaining the code.

Unless market conditions change dramatically, this will not happen.

Been there, done that, time to move on!

CAD_Monkey
7-Bedrock

I understand that PTC is not really interested in developing for anything else that Windows. It is rational. However, Windows is going in a troubling direction what with the telemetry, the badgering about cloud solutions, ads, et cetera. Basically, I do not feel that it has my best interests is a focus, rather that Windows is a platform for monetizing me as a product.

 

It used to be the case that Linux required special skills, and the ubiquitous use of MS Office together with suites of other expensive tools (hello!) that only worked in Windows. Sometimes with OSX thrown in as an afterthough. Today the sole remaining reason why I need Windows is Creo. Everything else is done better, simpler, faster and gratis with Linux.

 

I know it is meaningless of me to ask you for a Linux version of Creo. One guy asking for a fringe thing does at best get a boilerplate E-mail with "thanks for your interest".

 

I also know that most engineers do not have a say in what OS they are using, as that is given to them by IT departments with very rigid rules. Historically, such IT departments tend to prioritize their own operations over the wishes and needs of the users they are ostensibly serving, due to being a backpack tacked on to an existing corporate structure, with lots of influence and responsibility but decoupled from accountability.

 

So even if 100% of the engineers would prefer Linux and all their tools support it, they would not get it. But the paradox here is that a substantial amount of those IT departments would actually be happy to deploy Linux instead, because behind the curtains it motors more than one may think already. I know several places where most of the infrastructure is Red Hat, but all the users get Windows desktops because the management would get furious if they did not have PowerPoint. 

 

So I postulate that it is about time to quantify how much of a fringe thing Linux actually is.

 

A non-trivial amount of engineers do actually have agency over their computer equipment. I personally am CTO at a small business where all the R&D is done on an airgapped network, and while Windows 10 nominally works fine, it also holds no real benefits. From my perspective, it is mostly an annoyance what with its complaining about updates, asking to use MS accounts for authorization, adding cost upon procurement, refusing to see other boxes on the LAN, etc. The one sole thing that warrants its existance for us is Creo (and ANSYS Workbench, but I'll be badgering them separately).

 

Make a section of this community cover Linux in general.

 

Won't get much traffic since there isn't any Linux PTC software to write about there, so release some small tool and get feedback on interest and how it works out for users.

 

Or at least give us space to squeak in unison about how we'd like a Linux version. Perchance split hairs about the usability of different distros. Relay our experiments in emulation.

 

Thank you for reading.

Chris3
20-Turquoise

This probably won't help, but PTC did support Linux. I forget the first release (WF1?) but they dropped support with Wildfire 3.0. If you really wanted to you could go back to that release (it is still available for download). Here is the release statement:

https://support.ptc.com/appserver/cs/view/solution.jsp?n=137184 

 

Alternatively you could look at NX. NX supports Linux.

CAD_Monkey
7-Bedrock

Thanks, but:

 

NX dropped its Linux versions last release.

 

Wildfire 2.0 is - what? - 16 years old? Would not play well with our Creo 8 environment here. Also: worked only in some special old Red Hat release, I tried back then but I did not manage to get it to work in Ubuntu.

 

 

Chris3
20-Turquoise

I was not aware NX dropped support but your response has to make it clear why. Even within Windows there are a myriad of options to have to test and support (different patches, browsers, configuration settings) without taking into consideration multiplying factors that get added when you start considering different distros. There was a thread here a while back about why it was taking several minutes for the file-open dialog box to open and it turned out to be an issue with anti-virus software. The more time it takes PTC to trouble shoot issues that are not related to the core software means there is less time to improve on features that users are asking for. They explored this once already and obviously there wasn't a big enough sales basis to support the development.

 

As you mention time has changed Linux. This is the right forum for this suggestion because if there are truly enough companies interested in this then this idea will get upvoted and then PTC will consider it again.

kdirth
20-Turquoise

I would suggest starting a conversation in System Administration to discuss this and promote this Idea.  You will reach more community members in that section who deal with and have control over the computer platform used.

CAD_Monkey
7-Bedrock

Ah, you are probably quite correct. I shall move this over there.

 

Thanks!

 

S_Edgenear
14-Alexandrite

Thre good think is that Creo codebase has in its roots Unix/Linux support, even if the latest releases added Windows only APIs or codebases. Namely the embedded browser support. But since most of the software might be Linux compatible, Linux support can more easily come as an option for future deployment.

BenLoosli
23-Emerald II

As stated earlier or in other threads, there needs to be a valid and solid base of users who demand Creo on something other than Windows. My guess it would take a commitment of 20-25% of the Creo userbase for PTC to consider porting the code back to a Unix/Linux OS. It takes resources away from development of new features to do a port. It takes technical support training to support a new OS base. Are there enough customers to justify the expense, and maintain the expense stream, for PTC to reconsider their support for Unix/Linux.

CAD_Monkey
7-Bedrock

If I were PTC I'd at least have the Linux options in the works - for the day when Microsoft announces that PCs must phone home at all times. Windows 11 takes telemetry even further, and it is possible that if you want a secure airgapped computer you may not have many options soon. Edge sends your bookmarks to MS now after the latest update.

 

Sure, they will probably offer a special "military/R&D edition" in exchange for some painful price, not necessarily measured in money. I just don't want to be in that environment anymore.

Chris3
20-Turquoise
olivierlp
Community Manager
Status changed to: Acknowledged

Thank you @CAD_Monkey for your idea. @Chris3: thanks for the note. I took the liberty to merge the ideas and the votes. 

Based on the information provided, we are acknowledging it as the Community management team. This is not a commitment from the Product team. Other users may comment and vote your idea up.

rleir
17-Peridot

Re: the argument that all companies have management who mandate Windows.

Case study: Alphabet/Google uses their own version of Ubuntu/Debian.

Case study: Apple bases their OS on a derivative of Berkley Unix (BSD).

Case study: Nvidia provides Linux drivers and seems to be putting more effort into them (maybe because of AI?)

Case study: Amazon has their own Linux distro which ties into their AWS plans. https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2023/03/amazon-linux-2023/ 

Case study: Microsoft has its own Linux distro https://www.phoronix.com/news/Microsoft-Linux-2023 

Case study: Tesla https://rechargd.com/tesla-operating-system/ 

Remind me, what's the other company in the top 7 which form the core of our economy? @CAD_Monkey @BenLoosli @olivierlp 

CAD_Monkey
7-Bedrock

Thank you rleir and olivierlp

 

I want to add that several FEA software suites perform faster in Linux than in Windows. And when simulations take hours and days, such gains are not trivial. They are even the driving force behind very expensive hardware purchases.

 

I assume that the final resistance against full adoption of Linux among engineers is Office365. Personally, I moved to Star/Open/LibreOffice for such needs in the late 90's and never looked back. All the mail and calendar stuff I do on a MacBook, so in essence I run that on *NIX as well.

 

And even though I may be a fringe case, every engineer in every workplace I have seen in the last 20 years has had a workstation for labor and a laptop for communications. So I think that Windows is generally hanging on a loose thread in my field of work.