Fix 45 degree Chamfer Text

dhermosillo · ‎05-04-2017

Since at least Creo Parametric 2.0, three of the 45 degree chamfer settings are incorrect.

Default and Cd use a "C" abbreviation for chamfer, which is not recognized as valid in the ASME/ANSI standards.

Dx45 has lowercase "x" and no spaces in violation of the ASME/ANSI standards.

I filed a case and an SPR was filed:

https://support.ptc.com/appserver/cs/view/solution.jsp?n=CS146957&source=Case%20Viewer

However, PTC refuses to acknowledge it as a bug and says it works to specification.

They had said they might fix it in Creo 4, but now the status is "No plans to fix"

PTC, please fix the 45 degree chamfer text so we don't have to customize every chamfer callout.

Here's a discussion about the C notation: Chamfer call out - Drafting Standards, GD&T & Tolerance Analysis - Eng-Tips

StephenWilliams · ‎05-05-2017

My 2¢...ASME Y14.5 is an industry standard but not necessarily the only standard, some companies have their own standards. It's perfectly valid providing they make that standard available to their vendors/customers so they can interpret the drawings as required.

I would consider the "C" notation to be something like that. I've seen it used similar to "R" and on C/R option for chamfer or radius. As long as it's in a standard provided with the drawing. Since it's there, why remove the option? It's just an available option. I don't use it now but I'm pretty sure it was in one of the company standards I used in the past (big name companies with the resources to develop and maintain their own standards)

The lower case 'x', well, that's one of those oopsies I think. Not sure how that came about, unless it was in some company standard from long ago. I don't know why it wouldn't be fixed or an option added to allow it to be set by default.

Just set the drawing setup file or your template to whatever your preference is, including the requested option for UPPER CASE X and the problem would be solved.

In any case, I always consider more options better, but don't take away something that is potentially valid just because it's not in the current industry standard.

But I will vote for fixing the "x" to be "X"

mender · ‎05-05-2017

For reference:

'2x45<degree>' is as seen in ISO 129-1985, figures 4, 53, and 54. They have 'x' for various forms of repetition there.

'C2' is for the JIS standard (I don't have the precise reference for that to hand).

ASME users should generally wish to employ '45<degree> X 2'.

All of this used to be model-wide and not customizable/configurable. Nowadays, you can set it across your drawing, but also override individual dimensions if you want to. When you speak of a current need to customize every chamfer callout, and are seeing default=Cd, I expect you do not have the setting of the detail setup option 'default_chamfer_text' that suits your needs. Make that 45XD and you should find things work to your taste.

StephenWilliams · ‎05-05-2017

ASME only shows DIM X 45° in the figures... never shows 45° X DIM. Always been a problem with certain people here that it doesn't show in the figures.

So depending on that, you'll get some argument there too. Does it say somewhere that 45° X DIM is acceptable? I've never found it even though that's my preference and usage.

mender · ‎05-05-2017

Ha, that's what I get for only looking at the code for one standard I thought we all understood, and not the books.

I can't say offhand why there isn't a '2 X 45<degrees>', as seen in ASME Y14.5M-1994 fig. 1-42. Having 2x45<degree> is needed for ISO, but that shouldn't bar us from making this one as well. If we had an SPR on that, I could refer the question to the product owner and see about adding another option.

TomU · ‎05-05-2017

Does SPR 2198878 help?

mender · ‎05-05-2017

Yes, it does. From that I tracked down the potential enhancement waiting for our time+attention. I'll refer the question to the PM.

dhermosillo · ‎05-05-2017

Agreed. Fixing the lowercase x would be fine.

I'd also like to see the "Default" set to ASME standard if the user has chosen inch/lb as the units. We get too many users just assuming it's ok to use C for chamfer because that's what Creo P defaults to.

StephenWilliams · ‎05-05-2017

Change you're drawing template or your drawing setup file (.dtl file mentioned in the config.pro) so the default_chamfer_text is 45°xd.

Also, in the config.pro add the option default_chamfer_scheme 45xd (if I'm not mistaken, it's a hidden option, so you'll have to type it in).

mender · ‎05-05-2017

Defaults by standard are set up by 1) your template file if you are using one, or 2) your .dtl file if you are not using a template. The inch drawing templates shipped with Creo uses 45 X D, as does prodetail.dtl and 3d_inch.dtl. Out of the box, you won't get Cd unless you are using cns_cn.dtl, cns_tw.dtl, or jis.dtl (Chinese and Japanese standards). Please look to your template and detail setup files, as modified/created by your company and living in the loadpoint or some company library, to fix them up.

dhermosillo · ‎05-05-2017

That doesn't really help because we need it to be D X 45, but the D X 45 is wrong.

I guess it would be a little less wrong, but we'd still have to set each one to Custom.

mender · ‎05-05-2017

What's wrong about 45 X D? I don't see anything in the initial idea or the discussion to say that 45 X D is wrong. If you meant to say Dx45, that's the subject of the bit of discussion between Stephen's "ASME only shows DIM " and my "I'll refer the question to the PM."

dhermosillo · ‎05-05-2017

D X 45 is preferred because that is what is called out in the ASME standard.

From ASME Y14.5M-1994, p.17, Fig 1-42

mender · ‎05-05-2017

Good to hear you meant D X 45. Confirming that that is indeed the subject the discussion I just mentioned, and that I am currently in discussions with Product Management on the matter.

I feel this is getting a bit repetitive, so I am not likely to post again until I have an answer from PM.

mender · ‎06-01-2017

Hasn't quite shipped yet, but it's solid enough to announce: I got the approval to add (as a value for default_chamfer_text, and on individual dimensions) a setting for 'D X 45<degrees>' as the text for a 45-degree chamfer. This will appear in Creo 4 M020, Enjoy!

StephenWilliams · ‎06-01-2017

That's excellent. Little things like this are a nuisance. Taken one at a time, they don't really account for much but when you add up 100's of nuisances, you feel like you are just wasting time.

Thanks for your patience with us and your persistence with the product manager to make it happen.

You might also want to get the status of the idea updated to implementation in progress.

StephenWilliams · ‎08-04-2017

@Tmetcalf, are you still able to change the status of an idea? This one has been implemented (according to Matthew Ender).

I don't see anything with respect to status on ideas??