IFX be possible to automatic update members diameter and lenght

[T_F]

1. Describe your environment: What is your industry? What is your role in your organization? Describe your stakeholders.
To make the best use of IFX, it would be possible to turn it fully parametric. If we change the height of a part, the length of the bolt or screw should be possible to automatically update. The same for diameter.

I have some catalog parts, made by family parts, that the hole size changes and the screws need also to change. If I forgot to manually  update the screws's length I will have wrong screws for that part. And if the diameter changes, I will have wrong screws and wrong holes diameter

2. What version of Creo Parametric are you currently running?
CREO 7.0.4

3. Describe the problem you are trying to solve. Please include detailed documentation such as screenshots, images or video.
See NX idea to create holes for several parts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Alr6Bu35Kn4

Also Solidworks for several holes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ph8dqDHYgCo

Those 2 videos, are only for hole creation, IFX also inserts the screws, bolts, nuts... But some of the methodology should be studied.

4. What is the use case for your organization?
Holes, screws and nuts, are one of the most important part of a project. Almost every part needs a way of fixing it. It should be simplified!

5. What business value would your suggestion represent for your organization?
We would gain time in verifying projects, no committing mistakes in BOM, Make the wrong bought of screws, nuts, bolts...

[S_Edgenear]

@T_F 

Isn't that possible with the full licensed part of Intelligent Fastner Extension?

I don't know it's license costs, but the free version we don't use it precisely because of a lack of automatic update of lengths and diameters.

[T_F]

I have the full license...

[S_Edgenear]

Doesn't the full license allow that kind of automation? At least the length I think it's possible to automatically update, the diameter, probably not. One of the past requests related to the hole command update for Creo 8 was to allow the possibility to add Holes parameters to the family table. At least the nominal diameter, since in a family table rarely would there be a need to change hole standards. The standard hole "Screw size" drop-down selector UI element, counterbore height, should be possbile to be driven by family table or relations, the other parameters, from the hole table. This would solve this problem, but I think that was put on the waiting list for future versions, or simply halted.

[T_F]

See how to update the screws

https://youtu.be/9eeBBk-fhr4?t=1316

[S_Edgenear]

Another way, wich I suggested also to @mneumueller , was to allow the sketch pattern to allow be driven by circles in the sketch, specifying the holw size nominal diameter, intead of just points, this way we could do family table parts with varying hole diameters, that would allow a screw or bolt to be driven by the sketch diameter, when being patterned, besides the derived holes feature from the sketched diameter, to patten them.

[S_Edgenear]

Thanks for the video. I think I have already saw a demo of the use of the IFX previously. But inspite of the fact that it allows faster updates of holes and dependent screws / bolts, it probably is only dependent on the user interface, and the screw size selection cannot be driven by a pro/program or family table. I do see a need for improvements, and I vote for your idea, since it's a recurring one, a very sophisticated CAD program that leaves basic and and very common tasks do be made in an non optimized way, time wise, and error prone wise.

[TomU]

As shown in the video from @T_F, updating the fastener lengths is a manual process that the designer has to remember to do every time something changes.  This product idea is simply asking for this length calculation to happen automatically.  If the fastener length was originally selected based on the part thickness, then it should automatically update anytime the thickness changes.  It's supposed to be Creo Parametric, not Creo 'Manual Update' (like a direct modeler).

[S_Edgenear]

I think they made it that way yo avoid the probem of slowdowns due to possible circular references. But indeed, this method is not parametric, and error prone.

[S_Edgenear]

I don't have the IFX full license, but I thought there was an option to at least have the length automatically updated. I read the documentation 3 years ago, so I was wrong about that..

[S_Edgenear]

I know that a few versions back, NX changed the dependency of the tool they use for fastener assemblies in the library. To have it parametric updated, either a) the hole size and location has to be dependent on the selected screw diameter, meaning, the screws would have to be assembled first, (to avoid having the software to backtrack when regenerating), or the b) the screw size be assembled at the end of the model tree, based on the measured diameter of the holes, meaning, the holes are parents, the screw, the child, or dependent. The first method a) implies having a skeleton of some sorts, to position the screws before the plates, or else, there will be backtracks and possible circular references. Method b) does not forces the use of skeletons for very simple asembled parts, buit creates a dillema, which of the the screw holes define the size, the threaded part, or the clearance hole part. And this still allows the user to not sync both screw hole positions or sizes. To be syncrhonized, they tend to have to be made in a single feature in "assembly mode", which is not the fastest option. So, after trying one method for their library and noting the pros and cons of the chosen method, NX in a new version of the software, changed for the other method. I think the change was due to the regeneration slowdowns of the parametric method first chosen. Good for small assemblies, very bad to complex assemblies. I don't know if they eventually switchd back again, or if now they allow both methods in their screw assembly library.

[S_Edgenear]

I would prefer to solve this problem using multibodies, and personalized screws with a "Cut body" (negative geometry), that would stay associative to the screw, if it changed size. The problem with current multibody implementation to solve this issue, is that a body subtract would not transfer the thread or axis, but most importantly, currently multibody does not work in an assembly context, we cannot select a body from another component to make a boolean operation, as we can selct a quilt to make a solidify, so, we have to open the component, or activate the component, copy the body, and then do the boolean subtract, lots of clicks and slowdowns, only to not have the thread transferred in the boolean operation (which Catia and NX allow to do, when doing boolean operations). I think medium term this is the best solution, but for now I still vote for the update of IFX as you suggested.

[olivierlp]

Hello, 

Thank you for your idea and the information provided.

[T_F]

That's something that PTC should really work in CREO. If a part as a hole, another one will have a hole, if there is a hole, it will be a screw, a bolt, a pin, a nut... It can be interesting, but holes might be one of the most complex features in CAD software, lot of things can happen around a hole.

[T_F]

The methology of solidworks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChlFSTrOZk0

An Inventor way to do it (still not ideal, it's not automatic):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n02_6DGFx04&list=PLFtrIw0XC9RDOAUaLdaqjgJgdjDca6yLN&index=3