Representing positive and negative sign in ordinate dimensions in Creo Drawing

[Santhalingam.C]

Customers in Tooling Industries is need of mentioning positive and negative sign  along with dimension with respect to selected coordinate system while creating ordinate dimensions in Creo Drawing. Currently this is not possible in Creo Detailing. The same thing is available in our competitors. Kindly find attached the drawing which shows the details of enhancement request. Kindly request this functionality to incorporate the same in Creo Detailing at the earliest as it is impacting quality in Shop floor

[vbhandarkar]

Need this feature

[ptc-4994801]

Needs this feature

[ptc-5942237]

yes we need this feature as this has been asked by multiple customer of us and available with other software applications

[kamleshjoshi]

Required this enhancement for ease of use in reading drawing.

[rahulsardar1]

This fuctionality is important when compared with competitiors.

[abdulWajid]

Important and much required feature

[abdulWajid]

Much required feature

[ICAD_Support]

It must be there..

[KenFarley]

You can do this by creating the ordinal dimensions in the normal fashion, then rectangle select all the ones on the "minus" side of the zero. Select "Dimension Text" on the ribbon, type a "-" sign in the Prefix box. It's a manual operation, but a relatively easy one.

I'm using Creo 4.0, by the way.

[Santhalingam.C]

Hi KenFarley ,

Thanks for your comments This is not the correct solution. We have already discussed this with Customer. If there is change in design/Geometry later and which moves to the positive side , the dimension with the  sign will not be updated automatically as it is not associated and the sign is mentioned manually in Prefix box

Hope you agree this....

[KenFarley]

To be honest, I've never seen a drawing with ordinal dimensions having a "+" or "-" sign depending on which side of the origin they are. It's not standard drawing practice. Hole tables I've seen will have signs, but I guess it's always assumed that the visual display of the dimension and the feature it refers to is enough to make things clear.

My suggestion is admittedly very clunky and bad practice, since it requires manual corrections if feature locations are changed. When I've had ordinal dimensions that are a bit unclear as to what side of the origin they are on, I resort to either making a detail view of the region I'm worried about, or adding some clarifying text to the dimension.

[Hugo-KTM]

I would try to use a hole table to get coordinates.

If I am not mistaken, then dimensions are, per definition, always without a sign. I would think that if it has a sign, it is not a dimension and therefore tolerances do not apply.

[TomU]

Technically it is possible to set the config option "show_dim_sign" to "yes" and get some negative numbers to appear, but this will only be the numbers that are already negative.  Manually created ordinate dimensions will still be positive, regardless of which side of the zero they are on.

[Hugo-KTM]

Well, according to ISO 129-1:2004 my previous comment is wrong.

Not sure what pipelines and ISO 6412-2 have to do with this (ISO 129-1:2004 section 8.5.).

[Mfridman]

Hi @Santhalingam.C 

I have reviewed ISO 129-1:2018 (latest published) and was not able to find any reference that shows the use of ordinate dimensions with a positive/negative sign on them.

Can you please clarify which standard (ISO, ASME or other) supports this type of indication?

Updating the status to "Clarification needed" for now

Best regards

Michael

[Santhalingam.C]

Hi Michael,

This was one of the requirements from the Customer who is in tooling Industry based on their process.

They didn't refer any specific standard

Regards,

Santhalingam

[Mfridman]

Thank you @Santhalingam.C 

I understand the situation, however in order to consider a new presentation method for annotations in Creo (ordinate dimensions in this case) , we need to have some standard reference to follow.

For now, I will have to leave this status as "Clarification needed" until we may get further details about such standard references.

Best regards,

Michael

[Hugo-KTM]

ISO 129-1:2004 section 8.3 figure 62 shows a bidirectional ordinate dimension with negative sign.

ISO 129-1:2004 section 8.5 (Coordinate dimensioning) "The dimensional values indicated in the negative directions shall have negative signs (see ISO 6412-2)."

ISO 129-1:2018 + A1:2020 section 8.4.2 figure 89 differs from ISO 129-1:2004 section 8.3 figure 62 in that there is no negative sign for the bidirectional ordinate dimension.

ISO 129-1:2018 + A1:2020 section 8.5.1 (Cartesian coordinate dimensioning*) "The dimensional values indicated in the negative directions shall have negative signs."* (The reference to ISO 6412-2 was dropped.)

* translated from German

[Mfridman]

Thanks a lot @Hugo-KTM  for taking the extra mile.

I have now again reviewed the mentioned sections in both of the ISO versions and I have to say that this aspect of showing negative sign is ambiguous.

First, per the ISO rules we should always look at the most recent version of the standard. In the ISO 129-2018 version, as you have indicated, the image that showed the negative sign for the "running dimensioning schema" (ordinate dimensions), is no longer showing that case nor it mentions it in the text of the standard. 

Secondly, it is true that the ISO do mention the need to show the negative sign for the case of "coordinate (cartesian) dimensioning schema", but that raises the question whether the rules for this kind of dimensioning schema really applies to another type of dimensioning schema in this standard. I think that this is still an open question, at least for me. 

Anyhow, now that I have the provided info I can update the status of this produce idea to acknowledged. 

Thanks, Michael