Two inserts is not fully constrained

[Dale_Rosema]

When constraining parts, two inserts will not fully constrain the part although it is shown as fully constrained.

The part is yellowed as fully constrainted. The box does not say to allow assumptions. I have had parts flip on me do to them not being fully constrained.

If you add an orient constraint, then the part has all its degrees of freedom constrained.

Please correct by either adding allowing assumptions similar to screws or by not showing it as fully constrained.

Thanks, Dale

Edited - 11/14 @1:50pm

Without the align, there are three other options that meet the same criteria for the two insert mates. The "flipping" isn't garaunteed to not happen after you have saved and reopened. I have see that with other files.

Option #1

Option #2

Option #3

Thanks again.

Edited 05/05/14

I have also noted since this was first requested that the second insert defaults to oriented versus coincident even if the two inserts are perpendicular like the tube and the bolt hole in the tube. It, the software, must be logically programmed that the first insert is a bolt hole and the second insert is a secondary bolt hole for alighment and therefor shouldn't be coincident.

Thanks again,

Dale

[dgschaefer]

I'd consider this a bug, not a feature request.  Have you submitted it to tech support?

[TomD.inPDX]

Is this Elements Pro 5?  There is that "considered constrained" thing where fasteners don't need rotation orientation, but in this case, there are two other solutions that can be managed with "flip".  I don't see any other possibilities for this instance.

You can drag the components, right?  With the two inserts, what is the remaining degree of freedom assuming you have both axes locked?

edit: Ha!  that's right... flipping does happened and it is really easy to overlook this open option left to the software to decide.  It is scary on how many instances this can happen even in sketches as much as assembly constraints.  Try putting together chain links and them dragging them only to have the links flip over on themselves.

But I think you are onto something.  When a feature is considered fully constrained, it should -remain- constrained in that exact condition no matter what.  Somehow the software considers +1 the same as -1 when it comes to axial alignment.  There is no hidden "directionality" to axes similar to planes where you use to have mate and align (we did have mate and align at one time right?  or is that NX?).

[Dale_Rosema]

This was a discussion from 10 months ago when I first encoutered this. I didn't put out a product suggestion at that time:

http://communities.ptc.com/message/194923#194923

Thanks, Dale

[TomD.inPDX]

Okay, I'm up for an improvement   I added to the comment above.

[FlorinFaur]

Actually to fully constrain your part you need to add 2 orient constrains, not one.

[Dale_Rosema]

Fixing the link from above:

https://community.ptc.com/t5/Assembly-Design/Cylinder-with-a-hole-two-insert-mates/m-p/57404

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