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"Set Datums" should be hidden by default when placing a new view on a drawing.

"Set Datums" should be hidden by default when placing a new view on a drawing.

When placing a new view of a model on a drawing, if that model has any set datums, those planes and tags are automatically shown in the view, and the drafter must then select and Erase unwanted ones. On a large model with possibly hundreds of planes distributed among its components and subassemblies, this erasure can be time consuming. The only workaround is to use layers with collection filters for "Shown Datum" (see https://www.ptc.com/appserver/cs/view/solution.jsp?n=CS131258), but logistics or standards may prevent this from being a practical workaround.

Possible solutions:

  • Allow placement of the view with no set datums visible, then show/erase them the same as every other detail item within the Show Model Annotations dialog box (change existing functionality and consolidate behavior in a single dialog box)
  • Allow placement of the view with set datums automatically Erased, and let the drafter Unerase the ones they require in a given view (reverse of current behavior).
  • Create a config.pro or detail setup option that allows drafters to toggle this behavior (enhance current behavior with a configuration option)
    • e.g. auto_erase_set_datums yes/no* - yes: set datums are automatically erased when a view is placed/no*: set datums are automatically shown when a view is placed
40 Comments
vwilliams
Visitor

I see that a moderator "acknowledged" two months ago. Should we dare to hope? I'll add another bump just for the heck of it.

StephenWilliams
Sapphire II

Welllllll, the whole "acknowledge" thing was part of a mass push to get PTC to formalize a process for the Ideas system.

I still have hope that one day...

StephenWilliams
Sapphire II

It's that time again...gotta show the datums that never quit...I had just finished selecting them all for erasing...fyi, that is a 563" (14315mm) tall structure (750,000 lbs) hidden behind all those datums.

datums.jpg

vwilliams
Visitor

I don't think they appreciate how time-consuming it is to hide the datums in such a large drawing. Perhaps your 5-hour video of datum-wrangling should be required viewing for all PTC programmers.

StephenWilliams
Sapphire II

Just another bump to push this one out for more votes! I have no hope of an effective resolution!

 

While you are at it, vote for the one that pertains to model datums that show thru no matter what.

Re: On/Off on "set Datum" (Datum display filters)

StephenWilliams
Sapphire II

I spent the last couple of days working on a large assembly drawing. I had to load the drawing probably 4 or 5 times due to one reason or another. Every time I opened the drawing, some (not all thankfully) of the datums would magically re-appear on the drawing. It's infuriating to have to delete the datums again and again. Just to be clear, I first turn off the layers that contain the bulk of the datums. Unfortunately I am not in control of all the models so I can't fix the layer datums on all the parts. Also, "new set datums" created that can't be controlled by layers. But most importantly, let's not forget that for some reason, PTC has decided that datums at any and all levels show by default on every drawing that the parts/assemblies are shown. NO ONE EVER said "I wish all the GD&T set datums from all the piece parts and assemblies of my large assembly would show up on my top level drawing" NO ONE EVER!!!

Why would set datums show by default on all levels of drawings. Following that logic, why would anyone really want anything showing by default? NOT PTC...all other model items are shown only by using the show commands ie dimensions and axis. But for some reason they decided to follow a different rule for set datums. 

StephenWilliams
Sapphire II

Bonus post...I needed to make a quick and simple change (rev 08) to an 6 page drawing (customer interface drawing). The last person who made revision 07 was very studious and thoroughly reviewed the drawing to make sure none of them sneaky datums showed up unexpectedly but little did that hack (aka...me) know, PTC outsmarted the crafty guy and they knew they could get them datums on his drawing due to their "show by default" rule for set datums.  

SET DATUMS SHOULD NOT EVER BE SHOWN BY DEFAULT, FOR NO REASON EVER!!!

Look carefully, Datum B is ruining that view...several times...some arbitrary piece part datum is showing it's datums on my top level drawing!

sneaky-datums.jpg

Just to put that view in perspective of the drawing, sheet 2 of a 6 sheet drawing, full of customer interface details. Just imagine how many datums had been erased along the way already, over and over and over again. Every time someone changes or adds the sub-levels parts/assemblies that has datums.  3000+ items in this workspace and this drawing uses simplified reps to remove as many internal components as possible, not because of datums, but because these large assemblies sometimes get to the point they won't open. When it gets bad, I'm sometimes waiting an hour for the drawing to let me make the next click (usually save and then exit because of some odd model issue i need to fix so i can work reasonably)

sneaky datum overview.jpg

 

 

 

 

 
 
 
StephenWilliams
Sapphire II

I forgot to take a screenshot this morning of the 10 datums that were on my drawing. You say 10, that's not so bad. I agree except, I had already deleted/erased those datums. But, due to some unknown reason, they are back, probably because the parts changed since they are datums of 3 or 4 or 5 or more levels deep piece parts in my top level assembly. 

Why do I need sub-level datums on my top level assembly? Well I don't and pretty much no one does. So why do datums show by default???

 

WHY DO DATUMS SHOW BY DEFAULT??

StephenWilliams
Sapphire II

Opened my top level "sales" drawing. No GD&T on this drawing whatsoever. Last revision was November of 2019.

My drawing has become of dumping ground of unwanted/unneeded (in this drawing) for set datums.

SET DATUMS SHOULD NOT BE SHOWN MY DEFAULT ON ANY DRAWING EVER.

 
 

MORE DATUMS.jpg

 

I wonder what my TOP pet peeve with Creo (and before that Wildfire and before that Pro/Engineer) is???  I guess no one really knows, not even me. 

vwilliams
Visitor

I admire your perseverence.

 

sisyphus2

StephenWilliams
Sapphire II

I see it most every day. I resist the urge to post every day!

Mfridman
Moonstone
Status changed to: Under Consideration

HI all,

I acknowledge that this might be painful to manually hide many set datums that are not desired to be seen in the drawing.

Essentially if we are looking at the latest detailing standards, set datums are supposed to be replaced with DFS (datum feature symbols) that could be placed ONLY on real geometry. 

Despite that, I do understand that it might take many years until people are getting rid of set datums for good and I would like to try and help

 

The request here sounds very trivial, however it is not a small fix in case we want to cover ALL types of workflows that are related to viability of set datums in drawings (creation of new views, replace models, add components  etc.) 

 

I feel that providing a partial solution might be helpful and might ease the pain to some extent

By partial solution I mean that potentially we can provide an option to auto erase set datums for NEW views that are being created in drawings. that way at least new views will not contain set datums and you will not need to erase all the set datums for those views.

 

 

StephenWilliams
Sapphire II

That would be valuable. Of course I would prefer an all emcompassing solution but if we incrementally make progress towards a solution, every day would get just a little bit less frustrating with respect to datums.

Now, of course being the die hard pessimist I am, if a new view is created with the "new view fix" and then tomorrow I re-open that drawing and all the parts that got modified by "others" suddenly show all their datums, I wouldn't be very happy, but at least you save me one day of painful deletion of datums.

 

My days are full of large assembly drawings and the excessive amount of time I spend waiting on turning off datum layers and datum selection and datum deletion will one day all be just a painful memory of times gone by!!🤣

 

I bet no one was expecting me to comment!! 😀😁😂🤣😋🙊

 

StephenWilliams
Sapphire II

Hey, it's your friendly neighborhood datum keeper, you know, the guy whose drawings keeps all the datums so you can't miss them...

Well, todays story is one of a co-worker...a much, much more diligent Creo user than me. He thoroughly scoured the 10 sheet assembly drawing...and amazingly, he completely eliminated all the sneaky datums from the face of the all the sheets of the drawing...BUT ALAS, all hope of a clean drawing was dashed when a datum snuck thru, outside the face of the drawing!!!  

Remember, all set datums on drawings should be "shown by default" as says PTC!!! Otherwise your large assembly may be easy and that wouldn't be...well, I don't know what that wouldn't be...I've never seen such a thing so my imagination cannot fathom consistent and persistent datum selection and deletion!

 

StephenWilliams_0-1606769775206.png

 

Just in case you were wondering...here's all 10 sheets

 

StephenWilliams_1-1606769921666.png

 

Ahhhh, memories...I look back at 6 years of ranting and raving and wonder...it could have been done in only 4 years if datums hadn't been shown by default!

StephenWilliams
Sapphire II

Funny thing happened on the way to doing this customer interface drawing!!!

I am working along, making the assembly. It was a copy of another project with some component changes so I was able to copy the drawing over to the new number.

Can you believe that ALL THE PIECE PART DATUMS ARE SHOWING BY DEFAULT?  Well, I can't believe it. That doesn't make any sense at all but that's the way PTC decided to make it happen!  And for YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS its been that way. A sane person may ask, why would anyone show datums by default when all other items are shown only when the user shows them...Glad I'm not sane...haven't been sane since I started having to erase datums shown by default over and over and over again. Luckily these all are erasable via window select and RMB erase... The fun ones are those that are next to impossible to select and are not selectable via window select but that's a whole different rant I will save for another day!  That's 898 datums for this sheet. I didn't even bother to turn off the layer, it's just another step that only eliminates some of the datums.

StephenWilliams_0-1616599115345.png