How, exactly, is the ribbon "user friendly"? I find when I'm working that the RMB doesn't do anything anymore, and I have to constantly keep going back to the ribbon, and try and remember what tab does what. Do people today really need to be spoon-fed everything to get anything done? As mentioned by Brian and many others, the best, fastest, most productive, most experienced users almost universally hate the interface, the detail mode being the most offensive. So, how is it helping us that the best users are slowed down with needless feel-good graphics so the rookie users feel happy about themselves and the software?
38 dwgs in a day, really? What, you changed a symbol in each one? Try creating a dwg from start to finish.
Not sure what youre talking about Frank - theres still 3 DIFFERENT interfaces to deal with in CREO2 - MenuManager is still there, try Notes and Dimensions.
This is NOT efficient and NOT spoon feeding - OK if you know all of them but that would mean having learnt ProE earlier than Wildfire. Arent most of those users RETIRED now?
This is still the elephant in the room for PTC - reviewers of CREO have picked up on this.
Anyone who likes the Wildfire UI should stick to WF4. PTC need to get on and convert CREO fully, its taken way too long already.
Burt Land wrote:
...OK if you know all of them but that would mean having learnt ProE earlier than Wildfire. Arent most of those users RETIRED now?
I know you're being serious but watching you disagree with Frank because he was being too generous with Creo made me laugh out loud. Frank lambastes the interface changes while theorizing that PTC made those changes to spoon feed rookie users. Your response is basically like saying "Quit being a cheerleader for the new interface Frank... it's far worse than you're saying!"
I just never expected someone to come back and accuse Frank of sugar coating his views on the interface.
Hah! Retirement will never be an option for me. I'll just be led out to the far pasture to be shot when I'm no longere useful!
Yeah, the menu's are total "dingoe's kidneys" as a friend put it. People used to fancy (yet less productive) menus hate the old, simple, drop-downs, but they were by far the most effective. That 1/2 my mapkeus CANNOT work now simply because of the dreaded ribbon is total garbage.
I agree somewhat with Davor... we need a venting forum... I come here to learn. We have to get use to interface changes... guess what .. these young guys right out of college won't complain. Veterans get too comfortable and don't want to change. We have to adapt. Venting and complaining about personal opinion on interface adds no value to anyone. If you don't like the ribbon technology then you are going to hate Microsoft and all the other applications taking the same path. Now here is my complaint. I want to resize the ribbon to gain more real estate ...
While I agree we need to keep the discussion civil, this site is a place to teach, learn, and just socialize, too. It's not only a site for help but a large virtual watercooler. I think it's helpful to hear diverse viewpoints. Some people are very passionate and their words may come out as a "rant". I see nothing wrong with this provided we remain civil and respectful of each other.
I would point out that you've made the case against complaining about the interface... and then proceeded to complain about the interface.
Maybe, if you're a veteran, you're just too used to having too much real estate to model with! After all, the young, recent college grad next to you doesn't care one way or the other. He doesn't know he's lost real estate in the first place so he doesn't bother to complain.
Much larger discussion here- the concept of Don't complain, just adapt. I cannot disagree more with the notion that we should not criticize the software. But let's take this out of the realm of software into an area where my point will be easier to grasp.
I live in the US... and over the past 30 years (especially), our rights as citizens have been steadily eroded. 30 years ago in 1982, you could smoke pretty much anywhere you wanted. Over the years we've found various "very good reasons" to limit smoking. Recall how smoking was first restricted on domestic airline flights. Most people didn't bristle at this... seemed to make sense. You're in a flying tube, maybe the smoke could be bothersome to others. Yet as time progressed, the restrictions got tighter and tighter. First there were "Non Smoking" sections of restaurants. Then... no smoking at ALL in restaurants. Then eventually, no smoking anywhere in public. And finally, no smoking in your own house or car.
Slowly citizen's personal freedoms were eroded. At first, no one noticed and no one much complained. Instead, people learned to adapt. Suddenly one day you wake up and you're being pulled over by a cop because he saw you smoking (which is legal) in your own car? At some point you've adapted too much, don't you think? At some point people's desire not to make waves has cost them in personal freedom. People are now restricted from being as flexible as they were.
This is the same with the new interface. Your screen space has been chewed up with commands... and more commands... and tabs... and more little fiddly icons and tools. If you work on Creo and you happen to be an older individual or someone with poor eyesight who needs to operate at larger resolutions, you're in deep trouble with Creo.
I keep my screen resolution as high as I can possibly get it so my commands are collapsed as small as possible. For some people with accessibility needs, this isn't possible. I had a co-worker with two 26" screens (dual monitors) because he couldn't work with Wildfire 5 on one single screen. Creo would've killed this particular gentlemen. At some point PTC will be sued under the Americans with Disabilities Act for discriminating against people with sight problems. Think it can't happen?
The point is that criticism is valid and, I'd suggest, critical. The mantra "shut up and adapt" hasn't done any favors for PTC's software just as it hasn't done any favors for citizens of my country.
Personally I do not care for the ribbon. I was faster without it. So, I spend my time customizing the screen as much as possible so I can minimize the ribbon and ignore it. I am not choosing to adapt. I'm choosing to force the software to adapt to ME. I want quick access to commands. Furthermore, I would make the case that I can run circles around the guys right out of college because I've tailored my tool to optimize my efforts. They're working "out of the box" while I am working with a focused set of tools that allows me to maximize my output (and my screen space coincidentally).
I think letting PTC know my frustrations with the new interface is healthy. Sure, I can customize and fiddle with the interface to try to alleviate its intrusiveness. But shouldn't I let the company know that I don't like their development decision? Isn't there something to be gained by expressing my concerns? Isn't it good to question authority... and ask for justification for changes that promise to restrict my flexibility and freedom?
Not only do I believe we have the right to ask these questions... I believe we have the obligation to speak up! All change is not necessarily good... and it's not necessarily the right move to adapt just to avoid conflict.
Just my opinion...
I agree with Don't complain, just adapt - not adapt oneself but UI
just add the line "disable_ribbon_ui yes" in config.pro
also one may has config.win file as well
The example with smoking may consider as expanding freedom (for non-smoking)
Nah... c'mon Robert. You can't say having the government pound on your door to prevent you from smoking in your own home is increasing anyone's freedom. By the way, I'm not a smoker... that was just an example. Other examples abound.
who cares about smoking in your own home? I mean not Big Brother but your relatives for example. Give them chance of fresh air for a change. (I dont mean you for you are not a smoker)
As for Creo (Pro/E) we have a freedom to adapt it in contrast to MS Office and other ribboned soft.