I know you're being serious but watching you disagree with Frank because he was being too generous with Creo made me laugh out loud. Frank lambastes the interface changes while theorizing that PTC made those changes to spoon feed rookie users. Your response is basically like saying "Quit being a cheerleader for the new interface Frank... it's far worse than you're saying!"
I just never expected someone to come back and accuse Frank of sugar coating his views on the interface.
I agree somewhat with Davor... we need a venting forum... I come here to learn. We have to get use to interface changes... guess what .. these young guys right out of college won't complain. Veterans get too comfortable and don't want to change. We have to adapt. Venting and complaining about personal opinion on interface adds no value to anyone. If you don't like the ribbon technology then you are going to hate Microsoft and all the other applications taking the same path. Now here is my complaint. I want to resize the ribbon to gain more real estate ...
While I agree we need to keep the discussion civil, this site is a place to teach, learn, and just socialize, too. It's not only a site for help but a large virtual watercooler. I think it's helpful to hear diverse viewpoints. Some people are very passionate and their words may come out as a "rant". I see nothing wrong with this provided we remain civil and respectful of each other.
I would point out that you've made the case against complaining about the interface... and then proceeded to complain about the interface.
Maybe, if you're a veteran, you're just too used to having too much real estate to model with! After all, the young, recent college grad next to you doesn't care one way or the other. He doesn't know he's lost real estate in the first place so he doesn't bother to complain.
Much larger discussion here- the concept of Don't complain, just adapt. I cannot disagree more with the notion that we should not criticize the software. But let's take this out of the realm of software into an area where my point will be easier to grasp.
I live in the US... and over the past 30 years (especially), our rights as citizens have been steadily eroded. 30 years ago in 1982, you could smoke pretty much anywhere you wanted. Over the years we've found various "very good reasons" to limit smoking. Recall how smoking was first restricted on domestic airline flights. Most people didn't bristle at this... seemed to make sense. You're in a flying tube, maybe the smoke could be bothersome to others. Yet as time progressed, the restrictions got tighter and tighter. First there were "Non Smoking" sections of restaurants. Then... no smoking at ALL in restaurants. Then eventually, no smoking anywhere in public. And finally, no smoking in your own house or car.
Slowly citizen's personal freedoms were eroded. At first, no one noticed and no one much complained. Instead, people learned to adapt. Suddenly one day you wake up and you're being pulled over by a cop because he saw you smoking (which is legal) in your own car? At some point you've adapted too much, don't you think? At some point people's desire not to make waves has cost them in personal freedom. People are now restricted from being as flexible as they were.
This is the same with the new interface. Your screen space has been chewed up with commands... and more commands... and tabs... and more little fiddly icons and tools. If you work on Creo and you happen to be an older individual or someone with poor eyesight who needs to operate at larger resolutions, you're in deep trouble with Creo.
I keep my screen resolution as high as I can possibly get it so my commands are collapsed as small as possible. For some people with accessibility needs, this isn't possible. I had a co-worker with two 26" screens (dual monitors) because he couldn't work with Wildfire 5 on one single screen. Creo would've killed this particular gentlemen. At some point PTC will be sued under the Americans with Disabilities Act for discriminating against people with sight problems. Think it can't happen?
The point is that criticism is valid and, I'd suggest, critical. The mantra "shut up and adapt" hasn't done any favors for PTC's software just as it hasn't done any favors for citizens of my country.
Personally I do not care for the ribbon. I was faster without it. So, I spend my time customizing the screen as much as possible so I can minimize the ribbon and ignore it. I am not choosing to adapt. I'm choosing to force the software to adapt to ME. I want quick access to commands. Furthermore, I would make the case that I can run circles around the guys right out of college because I've tailored my tool to optimize my efforts. They're working "out of the box" while I am working with a focused set of tools that allows me to maximize my output (and my screen space coincidentally).
I think letting PTC know my frustrations with the new interface is healthy. Sure, I can customize and fiddle with the interface to try to alleviate its intrusiveness. But shouldn't I let the company know that I don't like their development decision? Isn't there something to be gained by expressing my concerns? Isn't it good to question authority... and ask for justification for changes that promise to restrict my flexibility and freedom?
Not only do I believe we have the right to ask these questions... I believe we have the obligation to speak up! All change is not necessarily good... and it's not necessarily the right move to adapt just to avoid conflict.
Just my opinion...
I agree with Don't complain, just adapt - not adapt oneself but UI
just add the line "disable_ribbon_ui yes" in config.pro
also one may has config.win file as well
The example with smoking may consider as expanding freedom (for non-smoking)
Nah... c'mon Robert. You can't say having the government pound on your door to prevent you from smoking in your own home is increasing anyone's freedom. By the way, I'm not a smoker... that was just an example. Other examples abound.
who cares about smoking in your own home? I mean not Big Brother but your relatives for example. Give them chance of fresh air for a change. (I dont mean you for you are not a smoker)
As for Creo (Pro/E) we have a freedom to adapt it in contrast to MS Office and other ribboned soft.
I don't know Robert... I we're very limited by the ribbon. I don't see how we're any better (or worse) than MS Office. Mapkeys? Mapkeys surely aren't the answer... you can make macros in MS Office, too.
I don't see how you can make the case that by restricting the users and forcing them into one interface over another that you're somehow making things better. Unless you can back up that claim with quantifiable proof, I call "BS". And I can tell you, claiming the ribbon is somehow better is just that, Bravo Sierra (BS). It is more modern... that's about it.
I find it easier to use the ribbon. Only the options are exposed that I need at that time. I am not spending as much time searching for icons or commands. Adding more options to the right mouse click is helpful too. Think about the history of the phone number everyone hated them in the late 1800's but eventually we all adopted. Personally I have found PTC's enhancements are right on at least 95% of the time. Our overall training cost will be lower, same thing happened when Microsoft consolidated their software suite , Excel, Powerpoint, Access and Outlook. Revolutionized the business world as we know it today. Don't care who you are, you can' deny it.
Consolidation of the software suite is a much different move than changing the design interface. PTC is consolidating its products as much as possible... and that's a good thing. I just do not see the same performance gains from the ribbon that you do.
I think PTC's interface changes are spot on many times. Yet there have been annoying hiccups and trouble spots with the Wildfire interface since it's inception. These were never addressed. At times it feels like the people who designed the software don't actually use it. I could give examples but this thread has truly jumped the shark.
We shall have to agree to disagree. Hopefully the newer versions of Creo still in development will continue to refine the interface (not change it wholesale but refine it) while providing more options for customization.
I have to agree with the general idea that expressing likes and dislikes about the software is a very good thing. This is a good portion of what the Technical Committees are all about. I can say that I know PTC has been beaten up many times for problems from Wildfire that still have not been fixed. It's fun to watch the PTC PM's roll their eyes every time you mention how there's still an old menu manager in some nook or cranny. Then there are times that it really seems that marketing is driving changes for their own reasons (addressing competitor funcitonality?).
In regards to the Americans with Disabilities Act, I do believe that has greatly impacted a lot in the area of icons and colors. I'm definitely not a fan of many of the icon changes just to make things look "pretty". If the argument is that it's a calculated decision to make it easier for people with color blindness to discern between icons, then I can't really argue.
As for screen real estate, I completely agree! Creo 1 definitely had some shortfalls in that area. I haven't played with Creo 2 enough to determine if it's much better, but I will soon. Unlike Brian, I usually try to avoid mapkeys and customizations. It makes it really difficult for me to switch machines or help other users when I'm used
Finally, in regards to the younger generation and Creo, I have plenty experience with them diving in and driving like pros in no time.