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FRIDAY RANT - Enhancement requests

gchampoux
1-Newbie

FRIDAY RANT - Enhancement requests

The bottom line is that PTC implements what they want to implement,
regardless of what existing customers ask for.

Yes, they do look at the enhancement requests, but will only implement
such if one or more of the following apply:

* A large customer is demanding it (and sometimes funding it).
* It's easy to implement.
* It looks sexy when demonstrated

The last item (sexy demo) is the most important criteria.
Remember when we all complained about the new WildFire GUI, and that it
really was not required.
We wanted PTC's efforts to go into making Pro/E more reliable (fix the
nuisance bugs) and eliminate the remaining right-side menus.

Prior to WildFire, Pro/E had a reputation that it was difficult to use
and learn, which was hurting sales.
Competitors (such as SolidWorks) were leveraging this quite
successfully.
I still do not believe that WildFire is any better than the prior GUI
(introduced in 2000i) but it appears easier to use in a demo.
Did it truly create a better product for existing customers? I don't
think so.
I cannot blame PTC for using this strategy, because it did work,
resulting in increased sales.

Conversely, useful enhancements can lay in limbo forever.
For example, PTC really needs to implement WYSIWYG in-place-editing of
drawing notes and tables.
In other words, it should be like editing MS Word or Excel objects.
However, this capability is neither sexy or easy to implement, and I
assume that no large customer is demanding it.
Yet, it would be extremely useful to nearly all customers.

Gerry Champoux Williams International
Lead Engineer 2280 E. West Maple Road
Information Technology Walled Lake, MI 48390
' (248) 960-2816 7 (248) 960-2607
* - <">mailto:-> *
www.williams-int.com
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11 REPLIES 11

Gerry,

The one enhancement I'd like is:



"ProE considers your request to be beyond its reach and will have to
prematurely exit. Would you like to save your work before exiting?"



Richard A. Black

Lead Engineer

Eaton Corporation

16900 Aberdeen Road

Laurinburg, NC. 28353

Ok, as long as we are ranting... I would like to pipe in with an enhancement request.



Why, oh why, does PTC still drag around all of the old methods for things like fillets, chamfers, draft, etc... Still today, when I open older files, (even in WF 4) I can still get the old (rev 19) dialogs for things like variable radius rounds, etc... Even re-saving in WF 4 file format does not 'update' the features.







Christopher Gosnell

TRIGON INC.
FPD Company
124 Hidden Valley Road
McMurray, PA 15317
PH: 724.941.5540
FX: 724.941.8322
www.fpdinc.com

>
ROFLMAO! That's got my vote! > Gerry,>> The one enhancement I'd like isSmiley Embarassed>> "ProE considers your request to be beyond its reach and will have> to prematurely exit. Would you like to save your work before> exiting?">>> Richard A. Black>> LeadEngineer>> Eaton Corporation>> 16900 Aberdeen Road>> Laurinburg, NC. 28353>> Tel: 910-610-1788>> Fax: 910-277-3700>> >>">http://www.eaton.com>>> From: Gerry Champoux [ From: Carol Fly [">mailto:-]> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 10:33 AM> To: -> Subject: [proecad] - RE: FRIDAY RANT>>> Yeah, those are REALLY effective! It's only been about three years> since Isent mine in, and though there's been no activity on it so> far, I'm surethey'll get right on it within the next decade or two!>>> WILLIAMS INTERNATIONAL????????? ?A COMPANY WITH> A VISION This email message and any attachment(s) are for the> sole use of the intendedrecipient(s) and may contain proprietary> and/or confidential information which maybe privileged or otherwise> protected from disclosure.Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure> or distribution is prohibited. If you arenot the intended> recipient(s), please contact the sender by reply email and> destroythe original message and any copies of the message as well> as any attachment(s)to the original message.This email message> does not form a binding contract or contract amendment withthe> sender, unless it clearly states in writing that it is a contract> or contract amendment.>>

This is WAAAY too much fun....

How about the little snippet of text you need to load every time to tell the difference between an "I" and "1"..... 20 years and going strong....

Or maybe a RMB "insert" mode in the model tree or the model itself.... of course it would have to be strategically placed near the "delete" pick... oh wait- that's where "hide" is.....

Have a great Memorial Day weekend......


GE Healthcare Technologies
Clinical Systems
Monitoring Solutions
Eric R. Slotty
Mechanical Designer
8200 W. Tower Avenue
Milwaukee, WI 53223
Gordo0510
5-Regular Member
(To:gchampoux)

Question:

Why is it that many other brands of 3D modelers are able to constrain an
axis to a plane, but Pro/E can not do it? (Or am I doing it wrong?)

Dave K

I do agree with Gerry and many of the enhancements we all wish where implemented.

I on the other hand do believe that the Wildfire GUI is much better than the old version and does make the product better and easier to learn.

This is not to say that Wildfire does not have issues. In fact, it's ridiculous that we are almost at Version 5 of this new UI and it's still not complete and it's confusing in it's own way. There are some very core issues with Wildfire and PTC does continue to add things that don't address the TRUE everyday issues we face.

Manikin is nice, but why did they spend so much time developing something only a small percentage of people will actually use? They should have fixed the GUI and completed it for once. They should have addressed the issues with Sweep type features and the fact that some of the core FEATURES are still not implemented on the Dashboard. What a joke.

There is also issues with sweep tools that can be used in confusion ways to accomplish the same functions as other sweep features. The sweep tool should be just that. ONE TOOL that does it all on the Dashboard.

This is just one of many issues that are REAL WORLD issues for customers, but we don't see changes.

I think Wildfire is the best in the industry but I also feel like PTC is not listening to it's customers or focused on what we have been complaining about for so long.

The technical committee's are fine but they obviously don't work, since we have not seen any changes to what really matters. Most small companies can't afford to send a user to the requirements for being in a committee and therefore only the big companies get heard. Even then, I am not sure why PTC implements things that should take a distant second to fixing their core software.

What about Drawing mode. what a joke. The reality is that most companies need the 2D flexibility of AutoCAD in order to document their designs properly and Pro/E has done this terribly wrong from the begining and we are still here with a Drawing mode that is on rails. You don't have the freedom of a 2D Drawing package.

So why is PTC not listening? Why are new features or modules introduced when the core funtions are so messed up.

Pro/ENGINEER is the best, but don't sit back and think that your competitors can't catch up. I see it happening every day. So please focus on what matters and keep your Manikin in the closet until you fixed all the issues that have been around for years.

It's a love and hate relationship with me today because I know Pro/E is the best. I just can't explain why the focus is not there to fix things that are so known and complained about from the users.

"Too many people walk around like Clark Kent, because they don't realize they can Fly like Superman"

jnelson
13-Aquamarine
(To:gchampoux)

It is always amusing to me how the users of a product, myself included, always know what is best for a product, and always seem to know the answers for all the other users throughout the world, and again, I include myself in that group as well.

The truth of the matter is, PTC is a Product Development company that is looking to: 1.) make a profit; 2.) "steal" customers away from competitors; 3.) make a product that keeps customers coming back for more...to me that is business 101.

Now, it there product(s) perfect? Hell NO! But everyone needs to face the facts and truth, it NEVER will be! PTC is never going to be able to produce a product that will make 100% of all its customers happy at one time, and if you think they are going to be focusing on one thing that is going to make just one person/company happy, no matter how much money they through at PTC, you are living in a dream world, and it is time to share the drugs with everyone else.

Whether you believe it or not, there are several ways to express your dissatisfaction with any of the PTC products. These include, but not limited to:

1. Enhancement Request

I know that many do not believe these are looked at, and that the request go into a database black hole.

I will admit that in years past there was a more "structured" process of submission and review. However, more recently this has seemed to slack off some, BUT, the enhancements are still reviewed and taken into consideration.



I cannot comment on the follow up process that PTC does or does not take, but, I can say that enhancements, and the entire process is a topic of conversation at least twice a year. And, since I cannot go into details without breaking any Confidentially Agreements, I will say that a new/improved process is in the works that I think people (some) will be happy with.





2. Tech Support

Show and explain issues to Tech Support, that is what we all pay maintenance for.



Now, some may consider Tech Support to be a joke sometimes, myself included, but you need to be able to push an issue with them, and "force" them to follow up and through with your request. Insist that an issue is not resolved until you are happy. Insist that your issue be directed to a Tech Support Manager and to Product Development, and get the names of those people so that you can follow up with them directly.



3. Technical Committees

(Until you are a part of the Tech Committees and experience what the members do and the time/effort that members commit, do not say it does not work! I personally take offense to that statement and I know of several other members that will as well)!!!





The Technical Committees are a group of volunteers from various companies, Large and SMALL companies.

I have to disagree with Damian about his statement on the Tech Committees.

First, I am not sure what Damian is referring to as far as the requirements for being a member, especially since recently the bylaws for the TC membership has changed drastically (much to my dislike).



Secondly, having been a member of various TCs for over 10 years, with the last 5 years from a small company, I can tell you first handed that the larger companies DO NOT drive everything that happens in the TCs, or what PTC does. EVERYONE in a TC meeting, know what size company, has a equal voice and equal time on any topic and/or issue.

We ALL have the same amount of time and input to PTC Product Manager and Developers, and we do this twice a year face to face, and several times in between on conference calls and web meetings.



Lastly, I would say that is you feel that Tech Support or PTC is not listening, and there is something that you feel strongly about, whether it is Functionality or the UI, contact a Technical Committee Chairperson. This is not to say that we can guarantee a fix or solution, but since we have direct contact with the Product Managers we can present your issue/concern to the right people and perhaps get you some feedback that may typically be hard to come by.

In the past I have done this several times, some with good results, some with not so good responses, but some response is better than none.





4. Regional User Groups

Attend a Regional Users Group meeting. At these meetings there is almost always a PTC person there to present issues too, and there may even be a Technical Committee member there as well.

Just about every RUG meeting that I have been too I hear directly from users that feel they have no other voice, and I can either address there issue right there, or follow up with them at a later time.



Make these Committee, RUGs, and PTC work for you. That is what they are there for. But I will say this about all of them, if something is presented in a rant, bashing, or nothing to back it up, it is a little harder to be motivated to follow through and help.





I am not saying that any of the above methods are perfect, and I know that it is impossible to make everyone happy, especially myself (just ask anyone from PTC that knows me), but I think that people need to consider what is more important, and what is the most realistic approach for PTC to peruse?

I think I am one of the most out spoken TC members when it comes to the UI changes , and for the "half completed" functionality implementations.

I do not like the fact that in most modules there is still a Menu Manager, and I am not all that crazy about the dashboard, especially when there are some functions that uses a dashboard and others use a dialog, and others use the menu manager. IT is, and can be very frustrating...and don't even get me started on the new WF5 Drawing Ribbon UI....OMG!!!

Damian mentions Manikin, and again, sorry I have to disagree with him.
I think it is an advancement in PTC technology that is great, and long overdue.
There are a lot of companies that must deal with the Human interaction of a product and with Manikin that is now possible within PRO/E.
Why did they spend the development time for this? The better question is, what took so long. And even if it was for a small number of customers, so what, they are customers too and there is a market that can and will expand.

The UI is going to change, and it is going to be a constant change in order to stay competitive in the CADD market, so you might as well get used to it, and prepare for it. As many of you said, other CADD packages are there with the interface, and I think we all agree that PTC needs to get there as well.

They are engineering software programmers, not User Interface designers, and I would much rather have PTC make the new and/or enhanced functionality more then I want a pretty interface. I understand the frustration as much as anyone. The Wildfire interface was never really completed with the Dashboard UI and less Menu Manager interactions, however, I have been living with it because I like the functionality in Sheetmetal that has improved; I like the new Pattern functionality that has been added; I like the Component Interfaces and Flexible Components in assembly mode. Would any of you really be willing to have one release that was NOTHING BUT UI changes? You really want maintenance dollars going JUST FOR UI?


To end my rant...having seen and discussed WF6 and beyond in the Technical Committees, there are going to be changes that force us all, new and experienced users, to adapt to a new UI, but with that new UI there is going to be functionality improvements and additions that will continue to make PTC the leader in MCAD market.


Other the UI (in drawings), WF5 offers a lot of great enhancement that people should really consider before getting to hung up on the UI..Such as:
MAJOR improvements made in assembly with Restructure
NO Resolve Mode
Simplified Reps
Explode States
Envelope and Shrinkwrap changes
Placing components with the secondary window (hint; split model and layer tree)
Combined States, and how they can be previewed before they are opened.

I would suggest looking that the new Point Pattern option in Part Mode,
UDF functionality
Take a look at the MAJOR re-work of Welding functionality for Assemblies and for PARTS

Take a look at Sheetmetal and how Forms are placed now
Pattern Walls
Mirror Walls
Interface is now consistent between all the wall options.

And if you can get past the ribbon interface in Drawings:
Split Model/Drawing tree
Sheet tabs at the bottom of the sheet
Have you tried the new Show Model Annotations dialog (was Show/Erase). This is not bad once you get used to it.
Did you look at the Edit Dimension dialog and the improvements to the workflow
The Hole tables and what they can now report
ANYONE notice the Model Tree Columns (hint; people bitch all the time about the column widths)?
How about the new Appearance Editor
RMB Insert functionality in the Model Tree
How about Sketcher and the constraints within the RMB
IF you are struggling in the Drawing Interface with the Tabs and content sensitive functionality, or mouse movement back to the Ribbon, did you notice all the RMB functionality additions, that changes for each of the Tabs? When I saw this, I hardly ever went up the Ribbon again unless it was to change Tabs..and if you are struggling with the Tab changes, then I will probably be breaking confidentiality here, but, there is supposed to be a way of more easily switching drawing tabs, but it did not make the 1st pre-production build.
One last hint about drawings, if you stuck in a Tab and you want to select a something that is not related to the Tab/Content, hold the ALT key and make the selection. That is limited to move only, but hey....come up with a workaround till the interface shit gets straightened out.







Joel Nelson
PTC/USER Sheetmetal TC Chair

[cid:image001.jpg@01C9DD71.55AE50A0]


I have to agree with what Damian has said. Most of us have said
something similar over and over around here.

I understand that PTC needs to gain new customers and it has to wow
folks with new capabilities to get their attention and to win them over.
Pro|E needs to grow in it's capabilities.

The problem is that there is a complete disconnect between those
developing and those using that new stuff, even a new UI, is so broken
out of the box. If there were really folks that understood how we used
the software at PTC, we'd not have most of these issues.

Frankly, we do ethnographic research here where we observe users using
our customer's products in their own environments, not in a sterile
research facility. We go to the businesses and homes and watch, video
tape and take notes. The companies almost always learn something
surprising from these sessions that we can then use to help them deliver
better, more desirable products.

Every company believes they know their customers and what they are
doing, but until you get in their environment and watch, you don't know
all that you can.

PTC needs to get in the trenches and watch us use their product in our
daily work. Take a look at the workarounds we develop because of
limitations in the software. Watch big companies, manufacturers,
consultants, tool makers, etc. and see what's happening in the real
world in a variety of environments.

Lastly, on the TCs - Bingo! Why should we pay our way to help PTC
improve its product? Get the folks who are passionate about Pro|E and
creative, and pay their way to participate.

Doug Schaefer
--
Doug Schaefer | Experienced Mechanical Design Engineer
LinkedIn
Chris3
20-Turquoise
(To:gchampoux)

I emailed PTC about this a while back when they were trying out the
IdeaSite. Google has a great enhancement / bug system. I suggested they
look at that as an example:

Quote: Damian mentions Manikin, and again, sorry I have to disagree with him.
I think it is an advancement in PTC technology that is great, and long overdue.


Just fix my brakes before you try to offer me an Air Bag.

"Too many people walk around like Clark Kent, because they don't realize they can Fly like Superman"

Quote: I have to disagree with Damian about his statement on the Tech Committees.


I apologize if anyone is directly offended by my statement. I did not mean the individuals are not working very hard to get PTC's attention. I know the dedicated users who participate in TC's are truly trying to make a difference and I respect that.

I just don't think the TC process is enough for the voice of the customers to be heard. My opinion only, so please don't read any deeper into it.

Anyone who is part of a TC. Thank you very much from the bottom of my heart. I do appreciate you and everything you do. I can only hope the process ends up working one day and the core features and issues get addressed. It's been many years with no fixes, but many other enhancements. I would just like to see both.

"Too many people walk around like Clark Kent, because they don't realize they can Fly like Superman"

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