Indeed, it looks like we're just coming at this from different directions. For me Thomas Braxton pretty much captured it in the other linked thread:
This is why I am still of the opinion that the default datums of start parts should not in general imply orientation in the absence of geometry. There are conceivable exceptions, however start model default datums should not have names like front, top, right IMO.
One work-around I've realised I use, is that I never hit the 'default orientation' button - I always use one of the other named views from our start part.
I also don't understand the issue with orientation when exporting, but then I'm working in automotive and we tend to agree our assembly origin (and orientation) before we start a project. The default orientation when assembling is simply "X on X, Y on Y, Z on Z" - that makes sense to me. I find myself more confused by Catia, which somehow appears to manage with no absolute frame of reference in an assembly - everything just seems to float in space!
Tom, "You would think PTC could at least be consistent across their product line" made me laugh a little....then cry. ;o)
In our case we got spoiled when we got the VX (now ZW) software because the view environment matched the orientation used in the machine shop, and our parts get manufactured in the same orientation. We have tried to match the same environment with Creo. (It works with some minor issues, just like Tom has also suggested).
We are a 3rd tier automotive supplier. Most of our models are received from Catia as well. We always wish the models could be supplied in the orientation it was built and not the vehicle assembly location. Some of the parts don't have more than 1 feature that is flat so it is hard to line up for our purposes.
I am another loooong time user of ProE (Creo). It has been a while since I was on the forum but lets see if I can add anything.
Creo uses a default set of assumptions which happens to be based on the old paper drawing board (as do some other systems)
Regards, Brent Drysdale
You describe the default Creo views and datums very correctly.
I have successfully set up my views and datums to make sense in a true X, Y, Z environment. Most of this setup works just the way I would want it to. When I extrude from the main datum directions it extrudes into the positive quadrant, there are no surprises with that or my views.
What I would like to see is when I select the front plane, go into the front view and choose sketch to have the sketch orientation not rotate and flip around. This does work correctly with Creo's default datum setup, but for our work environment this doesn't work well.
The flipping sketch orientation is a minor issue which has work arounds. I just wish there was a way to change that one aspect without altering any of the rest of my view or datum setup.
Try setting the option in your Config so that Sketching does not orient to 2D. Can't remember the option name but it is something like;
Reorient Sketcher to 2D with the default Yes
If you try it for a while you may like it
I am happy to use the default plane orientation but then I have used it for so long it just seems normal. If I need some other reference system for discussion/export to a third party I just add another CYS to suit that and more named views that I can use in a drawing if required. PCB export to an ECAD package is such an example but could be that sheet metal or making a 3D print from a simpler 3D printer sometimes needs this too.
I do prefer going to sketch in 2D. Even if I start with an orientation more to my liking with 2D disabled as soon as I click on Sketch View I'm out of luck; also the constraints don't reflect what I'm trying to achieve without reorienting the sketch view.
Perhaps after a period of time I might be able to acclimate to the creo view system, but we have at least 10 years of data made to the World Coordinate system. To go back and forth would be extremely confusing and mistakes and extra time spent would likely be the end result of the confusion.
The way I remember the default orientations is to imagine I'm facing an object such as a computer screen. The front faces me, the right side is "my" right. the top matches my up. Also X grows to the right, Y grows toward the top, and Z grows out the screen toward me. (for the defaults) (order of rotations follow right-hand-rule. if Z is your thumb, X is your index finger, and Y is your middle finger. (XYZ, YZX, ZXY - from thumb-index-middle) and the rotation around the thumb axis is in the direction you'd fold your fingers to close to a fist.
Automatic Sketch Orientation (in my experience):
when you choose a datum plane to sketch on creo does 3 things:
1) sets the sketch so that the plane normal is facing toward you.
2) sets the up-direction such that the datum plane moves the least. in other words, if you had the plane you were choosing in the exact position you wanted to start sketching, it won't rotate at all.
3) sets the sketcher orientation reference to the first available datum plane. and chooses the orientation mode that matches the creo-decision made for step 2.
Assume the default 3 datum planes from the standard mmns_solid.prt template that ships with creo. Datum Plane Order is RIGHT, TOP, FRONT.
if you choose "RIGHT" datum plane to sketch on, creo will rotate the sketcher so that the datum's normal is pointing toward you, as close to the same orientation as you had. Then will use the "TOP" plane as the orientation reference.
For your first example you are not actually asking for a front view. you are looking for a front-facing view, which is the back view of the object. That is, you are looking forward as if you were the object, but in actuality since you are outside of the object, and looking at it, you are looking at it's back side.
So for your example, you choose the "FRONT" datum plane and if creo defaults to using the "RIGHT" plane as your orientation, when you "flip" the orientation it will turn your sketch plane upside down while flipping it. If instead you move the TOP datum to the before the RIGHT datum plane, then when you "flip" the orientation it will rotate your sketch plane around the vertical axis because the orientation reference would be the TOP plane instead of the RIGHT plane.
WHEN YOU REVERSE THE ORDER OF THE DATUM PLANES, THE SKETCHER ORIENTATION DEFAULT PLANE BECOMES TOP INSTAEAD OF RIGHT.
NOW FLIP THE PLANE AND TOP STAYS FACING TOP!!!! (This is the order I have my planes in my start part and it saves me a ton of headache))