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MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

Reading is not easy.

From your own link:

"Tyco Electronics, ... , has selected SpaceClaim Engineer for concept modeling, bid modeling, and model preparation for CAE simulation." i.e. they only do limited things with this tool.

and:

"...Blake continues to insist that SpaceClaim is a complimentary product to existing CAD applications and not a replacement" Q.e.d.

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

that is an old link

....for concept modelling..its a wonderful tool and offcourse for geometry prep....for working with stl data...

yes its so easy it feels like a "toy"...spaceclaim has come a long way..it was choosen over cocreate at TYCO....

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

I'm not convinced that it's Creo_Pro-E that is to blame for your difficulty with this. Different CAD systems have different capabilities, methodologies as well as strengths and weaknesses. I think the real issue is that your methods were developed using whatever CAD system you've been using and probably learned on. The approach taken with one CAD system isn't necessarily appropriate for another one. Sure, your basic extrudes and revolves are the same...... You could reverse the entire situation and give someone who knows Creo and tell him to do the same thing with another CAD system and he'll have difficulties as well.

This is very similar reasoning as a lot of new people use, they want to try to force the CAD system to do what they think it should do rather than realizing that you have to learn how to learn and leverage what it does do. More often than not, the people who have been creating these programs know a whole lot more about it than a newby does, no matter how smart the believe they are. The biggest problem I've seen is people who think remembering the training course material is all there is to learning to utilize a CAD system, it really is just a starting point and nothing more.

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

Because this 'forum' is so poorly laid out, I'm gonna clarify some stuff here. (One cannot tell who reply's to what easily in here because there is no quoting... i.e. go visit a real forum or bbs, see how that works)

First, well said Daniel, trying to bring up other CAD packages in this thread is just pointless. If you learned how to do it one way in solid edge, and can't figure it out in something else, this is not remotely the subject here. This release has 99 problems and solid edge guy isn't one of em.

Secondly, is anyone from PTC in here? I'm sick of beating the horse on this, things never get fixed, nobody reply's to SOS calls, the impression is PTC does not give a rat's because I'm not Caterpiller. Creo keeps getting worse, and its not the dumb new name or the stupid ribbon, its harder and harder to use. Where are the commands hidden... why are they hidden... why do more clicks come from a quest to make less clicks... hello????

Third I am on Creo 3.0 because I spent my money to buy my massive alottment of one seat. My complaints are completely valid because I run this crap daily, and I am unheard because my support contract only lets me call India. For the record, I got some killer help from a guy in India which not only was a refreshing change, but an anomoly to the PTC way of doing business I'm sure.

FYI in the Creo launch video, I was promised a bunch of stuff I have been promised before, and it didn't happen again. This ribbon sucks, the simple removal of a modify command is dumb, and converting a pick that used to be on screen, to a carpel tunnel combo of hunt, left click, right click is backwards progress. Literally, its retarded, why don't you unlock my cage?

Can someone from PTC get in here and let us know you give a rip so we can help improve this package before it dies. You know your are losing marketshare, public perception of you is in the tank, you have one of the most powerful modelers on your hands, yet your mission is to make this software harder and harder to use. What gives here? Seriously, enlist us, we are trying to help you, the other guys are kicking your ass... wake up... get a clue... your users are dying a poor death here, give a rip would you??

Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

GARY DYAL wrote:

Because this 'forum' is so poorly laid out, I'm gonna clarify some stuff here. (One cannot tell who reply's to what easily in here because there is no quoting... i.e. go visit a real forum or bbs, see how that works)

There is quoting - it's just not included by default and thus few people use it.


However, the branching thread format does my head in...

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

it may be ground breaking, but my interaction with people using solid edge hear in India is they..still use the "history" approach....

yes since "creo" PTC has made some mistakes..user interface etc......but proe is still very powerful and logical software....

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

I believe that free modeling was pursued to satisfy engineers who didn't want to make the effort to actually learn how to use parametric modeling, or simply were unable to learn it. Now they can screw up the model by dragging geometry around without going to a proficient CAD Designer.

I can only imagine the difficulties it will cause when someone has to do some serious model changes.

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Anonymous
Not applicable
(in response to drichards)

Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

Find something that needs some of your serious model changes. Get yourself to a Solid Edge demo day. Let them show you how the package deals with the difficulty, that you are experiencing. You may be surprised. I went to my day with the attitude that ProE is the best, nothing else will ever come close, I was an hour late, and it convinced me in less than 20minutes! You might just be equally surprised, but you might not be. I see that you say you have had little exposure to the package. Be advised Solid Edge is a totally different mind set.

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

You're not going to be much traction for a low end CAD package like Solid Edge versus Creo on a Creo bulletin board.

And yes, I said LOW END. It's like comparing a riding lawn mower to a sports car. Yea, my sports car occasionally steers weird and leaks oil, but it sure blows away the riding lawn mower.

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

That's true, it always has allowed the user to create overlapping flat geometry, but that isn't the type of shoddy techniques I was referring to. It's always been the user's responsibility to check the flat to verify the sheet-metal design for that. I'm talking about model techniques for building models, I've seen solidworks tutorials that can't be followed step by step because Pro-E permit some of the modeling techniques that solidworks permits. I remember one where someone modeled something using draft as a major feature, and the draft geometry collapsed in upon itself. While solidworks allowed it, Pro-E wouldn't. Someone who learned on solidworks, would probably expect the techniques he learned while using it, to also work in other cad systems.

I had a little exposure to solid edge, I was not impressed by it, but to be honest it did have some features that were useful and convenient for specific feature/geometry types.

Creo, and others also have the syncronous capabilities you're referring to, simply using other names for it.

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Anonymous
Not applicable
(in response to dveljkovic)

Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

No on screen recording device.

No upload to youtube button.

This would be handy to show the world, the dumb and unhelpful things the tools tend to do, and how inefficient Creo really can be.

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

Hi Francis...

Have you tried free software like Jing (http://www.techsmith.com/jing.html) You can use this to grab simple videos from Creo and quickly upload them directly to Screencast.com. You can upload videos to YouTube as well but I think Screencast is sort of "native" to Jing.

I can see your point... but I can't see adding new features to Creo just for the express purpose of making videos to upload to YouTube. I especially don't think PTC would be receptive to adding these new features so you can "show the world the dumb and unhelpful things the tools tend to do, and how inefficient Creo really can be." There's not really any "value added' in that, is there?

You're kind of tipping your hand that you're a user of some other CAD software user trying to learn Creo.

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Anonymous
Not applicable
(in response to BrianMartin)

Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

No Brian, not trying to learn Creo. I have been using Creo since WF4, about 6 years. in my family tables I use functions such as PTC_CONSTRAINT_SET for example.

I can create family table assemblies that predict basic specifications of our product range, fine tune the sub assemlies, output BOM's to Excel and add to SAP, and have specific overrides for finish, colour and material specification, without the use of Windchill.

To call Solid Edge a "low end package" is showing your naivety. You clearly have not been shown the advanced tools it has actually got.

To call Solid Edge a "low end package" is showing your naivety. You clearly have not been shown the advanced tools it has actually got.

No Brian not trying to learn it. I have been using Creo since WF4, about 6 years. in my family tables I use functions such as PTC_CONSTRAINT_SET for example.

I can create family table assemblies that predict basic specifications of our product range, fine tune the sub assemlies, output BOM's to Excel and add to SAP, and have specific overrides for finish, colour and material specification, without the use of Windchill.

To call Solid Edge a "low end package" is showing your naivety. You clearly have not been shown the advanced tools it has actually got.

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

Creo is not ineffcient....you might like Solid Edge...so be it....

I have been using Pro/E for 7 years .....and still learn many new things in Pro/E.....that's the power of Pro/E..

Pro/E brought in parametric...modelling...and then everyone one followed....so the other's were ineffcient.

I am sure you have to learn many more things in Pro/E.....

User interface of Creo...is annoying....i liked it in Pro/E WF4....

ease of use is the best in Solidworks......

Parametric modelling...is the best way for detailed design...

Concept modelling can be done fast with direct modelling...SPACECLAIM...is very good there.

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Anonymous
Not applicable
(in response to rohit_rajan)

Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

You are right, you never stop learning.

I find that the way you do things is always constantly changing due to new discoveries.

Creo is powerful, but, oh so clumsy.

For example randomly floating datum points, due to mis-regeneration within family tables.

Hanging onto fail states when you are trying to fix things.

Loss of model connections, crashing the topolgy structure.

Not updating things to the family table control.

Not clearing the temp files between Excel control back to Family table, them clearing the entire table.

The basic logic of adding any change into the table, I feel that you should be free to just let the table regulate itself and you then should be free to change the detail, as in Solid Edge. If you miss an entry into the family table in Creo, every other instance changes, this can lead to an inefficent workflow, and, if not careful, destruction on a massive scale.

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

My recent gripe / slow down, is that when working in Assembly mode ,and you want to select a part (sub assembly) to manipulate, you constantly have to hit "select parent" to get the whole part (sub assembly) as you brought it into Creo. I do wish that, if I brought a part (sub assembly) into an assembly, that that part (sub assembly) is treated as a part, and that it dosen't automatically select that sub-part of the part (sub assembly) I just clicked on to make my selection. I should be able to slect the part (sub assembly) like I would if I picked it out of the model tree..

If I want to select / maipulate the screw in that part (sub assembly), I should then have to select (click on) the screw twice, hold down a button, or 'drill down' on some way.

Also, it would be nice if I need to move the part (sub assembly) in the model tree, that it dosen't easily insert itself into another part (sub assembly). I find it way to easy to move a part or sub assembly into another sub assembly instead of just adding it inbetween parts (sub assemblies).

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

Dimesioning really did not get better in 3.0. I am sure PTC will fix it. All & all the program is great. Started in Wildfire 2.0 & it keeps getting better. Keep up the good work PTC.

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

I'll correct the thread title first, it should read MOST THINGS WITH CREO ARE ANNOYING

Creo 3.0 M010 user since pro 12 here... Where do I start...

Text edits: the whole text edit thing in drawing mode sucks, get clicky and it crashes

The ribbon: another craptacular piece of forceware, added clicks and reduced ability, great call PTC

F1: if I wanted that hijacked to find a help browser, I would mapkey it, give me back my F1

Quick Access Toolbar: so PTC, put an all encompasing toolbar that's useful, above the stupid ribbons that aren't

QAT 2: its useful until you change modes, then it changes too... huh??

Measure tool: what a flaming disaster, showing the result behind the dialog is so PTC it hurts.. umm beta??

CRTL+Click: worst addition ever, except I don't need it in sketcher to pick two things, so there its rules

Feature Redefine: now right click, find ball and pencil, left click, enjoy cryptic heiroglyphics finding your sketch

Use Edge: seriously how many users lost minutes staring at icons saying "I know its here, but where..."

I know its here but where...: this applies to most the Creo family, thanks for hiding everything, I hate you

My mapkeys: trashed yet again.. but thats ok, most of them don't work because Creo means "hide n seek"

Creo: its just a stupid name, really

That tiny menu always on screen: doesn't this prove ribbon based anything is retarded?

Change window: where is that?

Mapkeys: found after command searching under "commands not in the ribbon" ...no I can't make this stuff up

tab this: new views=layout, create ballons=table, dimensions=annotate, centerlines=sketch.. wow, such fail

All this is off the top of my head, I'm not even going to bother going into the litany of WTF that pro/E 34 now is when you try to navigate part mode, assembly mode, sheet metal or the legacy of old menu's that are hidden away but still running the show. Want proof? put this in your config.pro and get back to me...

mapkey mm #MODIFY;#VALUE;

Go ahead, give that a run and tell me what you get. For those that want to cut to the chase, its your old friend the modify menu. Yep, ditched from icon world and not important enough for a spot in ribbon world, its still there if you just so happen to know how to find it. Well there you go, my gift to all who suffer. Yes you may now modify your models just like yesterday.

Of course I could further bark about radial patterns still not working right. 34 version later and you still cannot reliably make a pattern of cuts using a bolt circle. Amazing isn't it. Almost as amazing as the dance you have to perform to change the color of something, or figure out what layer your item is on. Oh wait, I must be in the wrong filter, more clicks... yes... more clicks.. I must need a smart filter that, is, umm, more smarter!!

Of course it's not all hell, it just feels like it. The 3D pdf thing is a nice add, as is the inclusion of mechanism in the base package. Of course, finding those items is almost as big of a joke as quickly getting to use them. Say, when did backup become a part of the world of save as, does anyone at PTC run your software before you release it? It really doesn't look like it, you seem to have taken one of the worlds most useful CAD tools and are purposely driving it into extinction. SW is kicking your butt and personally I hate it but you know what, when the last 10% of my pro/e career dries up like the first ninety, I'll be searching for a cert in that crapware because like it or not, they are the common format now... mostly thanks to you.

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

Wow, what an awesome post Gary, I couldn't have said it better. Sounds like you're an experienced user from the old days. Me, I started on v15 back in about '95. Yes, the menu's were somewhat cumbersome at first, but only because the software did so much more than the AutoCAD I was using. Then you learned them, made mapkeys, and it was all good. I like when they went to the sketcher intent manager, but they could have implemented that better. I don't want the software to guess the constraint, I'LL specify what I want, when I want. It'd cut down on the sketcher "thinking" every time I put a line in a complicated sketch. Or at least give me the option to EFFECTIVELY turn off the "intelligence" on complicated sketches.

Yeah, I hear you. When I was unemployed for a while, I saw a bunch of SW jobs, and either didn't want them, or they wouldn't consider me because I wasn't current in it (I used it for 6 months, hated it). But, if PTC decides to keep p!$$ing away market share like this, and NOT being agressive about getting Pro/E into colleges, then they're done for. I just hope I can ride that out until then.....

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

every passing day it is becoming difficult to defend the new versions of pro/e in front of solidworks,inventor users...

the power of pro/e made me a fan of the software....its a great software...some one out there at PTC is hell bent in destroying it.

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

Agreed Rohit.....

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

its surprising so many companies have shifted to Creo 2.0......

so then would they again shift to Creo 3.0...or wait for a miracle.

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

Hi Frank,

I'm curious, what didn't you (and others) like about Solidworks? I'm not trying to insult or offend anyone, but I really liked using it and am curious what Creo users dislike about it.

I'll admit, I've only used Creo 2.0 & 3.0 for less than 2 years. I've never used the earlier versions of Pro/E, so I don't know what has changed. I'm certainly not proficent at it. But from my own experience, I've never been able to grow fond of Creo. I think it is horrible. Nothing in it is consistant. Some commands won't even let you cancel out of them. It's like anyone who ever worked for PTC was allowed to do anything they wanted with no oversight.

Accuracy is a nightmare and scrap maker for me. I can have a failed cutout feature due to accuracy, but be able to roll the tree up and put the exact same cutout in successfully. Accuracy causes my features to change or even relocate themselves without failing.

Assembly is miserable to me also. If I put a puzzle together, I can dump all the pieces out in a pile and put it together in any way I choose. In Creo, I have to pull one piece out at a time and it can only be connected to a piece that's already out. Parasolid based software allows the user to mate parts any way they want and be able to see what's mated to them.

Again, I'm not trying to anger or offend anyone. I certainly don't have the experience that most of you do. For what I use it for, I just can't find what I does so much better that makes it worth the daily nuisance of using it's flawed core functions. I use it to create drawings and for math data. Drawings are a second thought for PTC, and nobody I deal with uses Creo, so all that extra effort I have to put into the model just to show on a drawing doesn't get used anyway.

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

Very well said. I agree 100%.

I used proe in the 90s when it only ran on very high end computers/math processors/graphic processors. For what I was doing, it was the thermonuclear gnat killer, but it was interesting.

Most of my experience is with solidworks and while it has its' quirks, it is vastly more consistent and logical. Like you, I find proe to be incredibly inconsistent, even fractured. Dassault is open to and solicits input from users. Then they incorporate this into the product!

Drawings are a dream even if not compared to proe.

I'm still baffled that the proe community continues to tolerate the downright stinky, toxic behavior of ptc. Just look at all the work arounds! Really? I have to become proficient in a shareware product to use a very expensive cad package?

No doubt y'all are a very creative and intelligent group, but one does wonder sometimes.

After a year using this horrible software, I still don't see what the attraction is. I'm sure it does some wonderful things, but so far, have not found them. Maybe there is a small niche for this crap, but for the rest of the world that needs to produce actual drawings, it's a waste of time and cpu cycles.

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

friend since you have only used creo 2.0 and creo 3.0...well you have not used actual pro/e then....which stopped at pro/e 4.0 i guess.....

pro/e has immense power...every time you think this can't be done..proe has a good way out..its all there..its like a puzzle..i love this puzzle but only till pro/e 4.0...

assembly is good in pro/e..i do not like the solidworks way of assembly....

no doubt solidworks is the easiest to use....

i do not like at all the way creo 2.0 and creo 3.0 have come up....

but trust me pro/e is wonderful...

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

It's interesting that Solidworks seems to be the default competitor here - in my company (primarily automotive), Catia is the 'other' CAD system, with NX a poor third.

Apart from an out-of-date version of Unigraphics way back when I was at Uni, and RADAN on my sandwich year, Pro/E is really my only CAD experience so I suppose I don't really know what I'm missing... I've been using Pro/E since 2000i^2, and have benefited from a proper training course (three days off-site IIRC) and then being closely guided by colleagues who have also been properly trained.

I'm currently doing a sort of exchange with the chap sat opposite me who is very experienced with Catia - he's helping me with that, and I'm helping him with Creo 2, both of us basically just trying to muddle through asking questions when we need to (no proper training course this time!). The ways of thinking are rather different, and as you'd expect there are a couple of nice capabilities in each package, but it's too early to really make a call as to which is 'best'. Amazingly I do think Catia's drawing module is worse, though - and I'm beginning to really understand the 'P' in 'PTC', because Catia seems much less parametric.

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

CATIA makes CREO and Solidworks look like children's playthings. CATIA runs circles around them.
CATIA's sketcher is infinitely more capable than CREO's, from the ability to quickly link dimensions, to getting geometry built for complex profiels, actually being able to project silhoette geometry, etc.

The only thing I've done in CREO that beats CATIA is the generation of text on models for part numbering. CATIA doesn't perform well at all in that category.

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

I agree on sketcher, I know some didn't like seeing the constraints displayed like that and I never got why that would be. Seemed like an improvement to know how it solved so you could tweak on it... if it was thinking parallel or conincident or whatever, that was easy to address. Of course rewinding the clock, I recall having to keep the assembly constraints in your head because prior to release 17, there was no dialog to keep you aware of top/top, front/front, and right/right. Then again, the yellow side of the datum meant something back then and the whole basket of misery really made you model with purpose knowing you'd be assembling it all later... anyways...

Thanks for the reply, my suggestion to PTC would be to round up a few of us dinosaurs that know their product (better than they do appearantly) and let us create Creo 4 and fix most all of these F ups for them.

To the posts on SW and Catia, its hard to relate to what you know how to address this because we come from different worlds and before we stray totally off topic, this is a bitch thread about Creo so lets leave it at that. The root complaint for many of us for sure is the fact that our functionality is in there, it just gets moved and hidden further away every release. We are constantly promised less clicks and faster access, and today we have more clicks than ever and this hideous POS front end that is focused on icons and heiroglyphics and ribbon tabs, totally obfuscating our wants and needs in modeling a flipping part. Not only that, but the menu's are still there in some cases, as is query select, but you just can't find it. Try to actually select import data doctor. You can't, it doesn't have a menu and there isn't a button.

Anyhow too many replies to address now so in rapid fire... what is Autohotkey, never heard of it.. SW guy hates accuracy and fails alot, odd, years go by and I never mess with it, it never fails for me, I think that problem is elsewhere... what did I hate about SW, sketches that solve with 89.1 degree square corners and everything about drawing mode, I don't know, I found it horrid... assembly mode in pro/e has critics, really? it's not cryptic at all to me, in fact the addition of mechanism is sweet, we aren't all happy about that?... below the cylinder ports, that looks like a cake walk, how can it not shell? I don't think the intersecting ports would kill it, but it's worth a look. I am more concerned with how the circles at the large end of the ports exactly intersect with the boundary of the cylinder. That seems like a big no-no to me, I would back those into the body a little and get rid of that mass ganglia of verticies. As pictured there are four of these, two each at the end of the circles... blended sweeps and VSS are cash, shell is amazing, combo these for the win seems like the way to go so, try different thicknesses to see if it regens, then turn off one port at a time to narrow down where it pukes, I bet it's pilot error more than the software, pro/e is beyond capable of making that thing man

if you're on Creo 3 post the model, I'll look at it pro bono

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

Hi Gary,

Autohotkey is an open source scripting and programming app, that can make your work in Creo or any other software running on Window much more enjoyable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AutoHotkey

If you have to work in Multi-CAD environment like me then it makes so much sense to turn all the functions you use to keyboard hotkeys. It all takes time at first, but after all the hours spent creating models and drawings it should give you back all the time to learn it and of course more onwards.

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

All of these can be avoided with the extensive use of AutoHotkey or AutoIT.

The thing is should it be that way?

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