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MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

Shell, Sweeps, Blends, etc.
CREO sucks at advanced solid modeling.

I have a model that is a solid cylinder with with 2 "ports" removed from the cylinder, 1 is a sweep and the other is a blend. This is nothing fancy. I want to shell the model to represent a cast part. CREO fails.
I've tried to build this model 10 different ways.
I've tried building the sweep and blend as individual solid features and then trim them back to a thickened extrude of the cylinder. I've tried developing multiple surfaces (another retarded methodology in CREO which takes forever) and errors eventually blow everything up.
And I'm no spring chicken on CREO or CAD in general. I used to be a CATIA V5 instructor and have over 15 years in CAD work, almost all in advanced modeling.


CREO is like working with a politicians trying to explain common sense only to find out that the part of the brain necessary for the conversation was never present in the first place.

Valve.JPG

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

Hmmm, hey Brian, looks like the ports intersect, and I'd imagine that's where the trouble lies?

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

Probably not the ports, but the thickened surfaces of the ports.

If you shell it using a very small thickness it probably works okay.

But of course you would simply want it to work, without having to figure out first why it doesn't work, and then think of a workaround...

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

Nope. Any thickness fails.

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

Frank, unfortunately, the geometry is intentional. I've modeled parts similar to this in other CAD packages and never had issues.
CREO struggles in general with blends, sweeps and extrudes working together. It also struggles with giving the operator control over the direction of the surfaces as compared to other packages, but I expect that.

There should be no inability of CREO to perform what I'm asking. I suspect that this is a bug rearing its head as a result of poor investment in surface definition programming.

I eventually conceded and built the entire solid using surfaces, trimmed them together and created a solid from the final surface.

CREO can handle the surfaces, though poorly, i.e. extra steps to arrive at the desired result.

Here are some results:

Valve_2.JPGValve_3.JPG

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

Hi Brian,

Any chance you can post the dimensions to that model. I'd like something simple like this to use for an internal FAQ for shells. For whatever reason i see nothing problematic in my visually recreated version of the geometry hence i'd like to have the exact dimensions to then be able to better communicate the appropriate methods to adopt for it.

Hope you can oblige me, you sound like you're really hating Creo right now.

Thanks in advance.

Chris

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

Did anyone already mention the Draft angle limitation to 30 degrees? That retarded. It should allow up to 89.99.
The point is that you are modeling a part, not creating features whose names match the features' real mechanical nomenclature.
Otherwise, we'd have 50 different types of extrudes and revolves.
A draft angle should be simply a tool to create an angled face hinged from a selected reference feature...
Stupid PTC.

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

This was fixed in Creo 3.0. I did noticed that they did screw up the clipped dimensioning in the drawing files. I used to be able to click on a theor. sharp corner, centerline, and theor. sharp and place a clipped diameter dimension. In 3.0, you click on the theor. sharp, then the centerline, then a drop down comes up to double the value. Great except the dimension line and arrows point in the wrong direction. Too bad I use this all the time.

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

Hi Brian,

We enhanced the draft angle limit to support angles up to 89.9 in Creo 3.0 both for the Draft feature and the Extrude feature.

Don

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

Awesome, except it doesn't help me until we switch...

Still don't understand why this was developed this way in the first place.

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

and the stupid other softwares..cannot switch between..extrude,cut and surface..stupid other softwares.

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

If you were to ever use CATIA, you would curse CREO. Just saying.

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

no way...i would never curse Creo..i have used CATIA...very very good in surfacing....

assembly..struggles in Catia

I am big fan of pro/e..do no know where Creo is headed though...

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

Assemblies struggle in CATIA???

CATIA blows CREO away in assemblies.

CREO assembles with a timeline, 1 part at a time.

CATIA is dynamic and allows for mutual constraints. It is a more logical method. You can move items in the tree, and group them together without having to deactivate constraints. Flexible subassemblies, etc. all work better in CATIA. I can insert groups of part.

Man, I've literally written the training curriculum for CATIA courses at the CAD CAM Lab at NIAR at Wichita State. Dassault uses our curriculum.

CREO handles assemblies like crap in comparison. If you think CATIA struggles with assemblies, you simply weren't trained.

Sorry.

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

I can't address how CATIA handles assemblies, it sounds a bit to me like components aren't really definitively constrained? I recall another CAD system that I learned prior to Creo that didn't either, so there could be a discussion on CAD theory here but none of us are probably qualified to debate it here.

I do know positively, that your statement about Creo only being able to assemble one part at a time is blatantly false, but I can see where the basic user might believe that to be true. If you hate Creo so much, and you're such an expert on Catia, perhaps you should stick with Catia. I would have a difficult time and struggle doing everything I've done with Pro-E, on Catia.

I have been impressed with some of Catia's surfacing, and I did complete some Catia solid modeling tutorials, and I am of the belief that Catia, as well as NX, appear to cater more toward the user's needs, where PTC seems to focus more on sales and marketing.

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

I appreciate the candor.

I have tried to obtain additional training, however my company has not afforded me that opportunity.As I am no longer in the Aerospace industry and now am a Product Development Engineer for a Food Production Equipment OEM, I am now at the mercy of my employer's choice of CAD.

As far as importing multiple components into an assembly for constraining, I am referring to when you assemble components such as in the Windchill interface.

Sure, you can copy and paste multiple components, but then you still must constrain them in the timeline sequence of their insertion.

As of yet, I am unaware of being able to select multiple parts and/or subassemblies for the purpose of building assembly BOMs quickly.

Daniel, if you can direct me in that, I'd be obliged.

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

If you want more help with this you can create a new discussion for just the problem you have. This thread is a general complaint thread, not one for finding solutions.

Windchill is a PDM system, not a CAD system, so I'm unsure how to translate your view of the desired input and resulting output. A cleaner description would help.

Creo Parametric is a procedural modeler - it isn't a timeline as much as a procedural sequence. Just like 99.9% of other programming languages, it hasn't got parallelism or out-of-sequence evaluation. You can re-order the sequence, create sub-sequences (subassemblies), and so on.

Generally PTC models are built to represent realizable items - most assemblies are built one component at a time, and there is no reason a real assembly cannot be built that way so it makes a useable scheme for managing models.

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

13. When pressed Esc buton  while in skecth mode, Creo will go out without asking to confim it. On other hand, it asks to confirm cancel command even when it is not needed.


If you add any references or any geometry, the sketch wont exit directly. Unchanged sketch interface will exit.

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

Not true. You can work for days, put as many entities as you want but if you press ESCAPE on keyboard Creo exits sketch mode without confirmation and sketch is gone for good.

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I attempted to reproduce this but was unable to -- either making or editing a section, having made some change, the Escape key behaved identically to the X cancel button, putting up a confirmation popup.  Could you possibly provide Tech Support with a demonstration of the problem, so it can be fixed?

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

Before replying I checked the ESC option and I given the reply. In my case what Matthew said is happening. One more information i can give you.

While closing creo one popup window for confirmation will come. We can set options to disable the popup. That means direct close.

Any similar settings are there for sketcher that i am not sure.

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

15. With AMD graphics cards, model three window goes black an you have to click on each item/feature blindly until they show up.

I am using workstation Dell. Didn't felt any problem related to graphics as is now. I am not clearly understanding the problem also.

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

I am using DELL WS as well. It does not matter if you use WS or not. It is related to GPU drivers.

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

Ya related to graphics the graphics matters.

I am using Intel precision T360 equipped with Quadro. 4Gb

For basic machines (Assembled) this link might be useful

How to Set graphics in Creo 2.0 - YouTube

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

Hello everyone!

I've been working every day on Creo for a year now. I've used SolidWorks, AutoCAD, OnShape (very interesting and fresh) and Creo (2.0 and 3.0).

I can tell that Creo has been the most frustrating CAD experience I've ever had.

For creating a tangent/angle plane, a surface, holes, assembly (copy/paste parts, assign mates, change colors, modify an early copy part without affecting the latest...), wraps around surface, carve letters on cylinders and many more features; I need a parade of clicks and Ctrls, almost ALL in a certain order!!

It's amazing how all other CAD software are intuitive and have a smooth interaction between features and modifications. On the other hand, using Creo, almost every day I have to look for a tutorial or access this site in order to do something.

The software is good, but lately, I spend more time looking for tutorials and related usage information than working.

Get your things together PTC.

Regards,

CC

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

I couldnt agree more. I just spent an hour trying to create an axis datum...ya know, a line between two points? One would think you'd just click on two model points, and have an axis....oh no. It requires some assbackward reference to a plane, then a second reference, and an offset value, all in some totally non-intuitive pop-up menu. That spits out 5 errors for every thing i'm able to actually select.

 

Horrible software. I will be doing everything in my power to get my company to dump creo. It will be an uphill battle, since we are a fairly large company with hundreds of engineers...but someday. Someday.

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

An hour? Wow. That's amazing. I can see why you want to shift to something you already know.

 

But if anyone else needs to create an axis through two points, then this video will show that it takes a couple of seconds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnmYfhUytTs

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

Have you had any Creo training?

Dave Martin - dmartin@creowindchill.com - https://www.creowindchill.com
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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO

No...the next class from my VAR isnt for two more weeks...so Im hacking my way through it.

 

Plot twist: I'm coming off almost 20 years, 15,000+ hours. of Solidworks. I've been using it since v2000. Unlearning things is almost harder than learning them.

 

I did of course figure out how to make a 2 point axis, but its maddening that you cant just click the axis icon, then one point, then the other. Its a floating menu, and two control+clicks, and then the drop downs to choose "through". Literally double the number of clicks to achieve the same result. And Im finding that EVERY function in creo is the same way. The core functionality is the same, but its like they gave zero thought to the useability of the UI. 

 

I know I'll get used to it. Just like I could get out of a modern car and get used to driving a jalopy from the 70's. 

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Re: MOST ANNOYING THINGS WITH CREO


@applieddesign wrote:

No...the next class from my VAR isnt for two more weeks...so Im hacking my way through it.

 

Plot twist: I'm coming off almost 20 years, 15,000+ hours. of Solidworks. I've been using it since v2000. Unlearning things is almost harder than learning them.

 

I did of course figure out how to make a 2 point axis, but its maddening that you cant just click the axis icon, then one point, then the other. Its a floating menu, and two control+clicks, and then the drop downs to choose "through". Literally double the number of clicks to achieve the same result. And Im finding that EVERY function in creo is the same way. The core functionality is the same, but its like they gave zero thought to the useability of the UI. 

 

I know I'll get used to it. Just like I could get out of a modern car and get used to driving a jalopy from the 70's. 


If you drive Creo like SW it'll punish you, much like SW does when I try driving it like Creo.  Creo cares much more about what reference you are clicking and maintaining that relationship.  SW is made around building geometry fast and using the references that are convenient.  If things fail in SW, it's easy and fast to rebuild.  Creo is focused on maintaining your references and design intent, if you are more intentional about what you select, it will reward you will very robust models.  SW doesn't seem to reward that kind of diligence in my experience.  Neither is wrong, necessarily, just different modeling philosophies.

 

Give Creo time and try to adapt to its philosophy.  I've helped many a SW user adapt to Creo and most end up preferring it in the end.

 

As far as the axis creation goes, it's pick the axis button, pick point 1, press ctrl, pick point 2, middle mouse to accept. 4 clicks, 5 if you count the control button.  Aside from the requirement of using ctrl, it's hard to imagine taking clicks out of that sequence.  Not to say that there aren't extra clicks in the Creo interface, just not here.

 

BTW, I've got 20+ years on Creo with easily over 20K hours, probably over 30K if you assume 75% of my time in 21 years.  I've got 10+ years of SW too, but many fewer hours since the bulk of my work has been Creo,  but still probably 5K-7.5K hours. 

--
Doug Schaefer | Experienced Mechanical Design Engineer
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