Change in appearance of vertical lines in Prime 3

[rclayton]

I've been away from Mayhcad Prime 3 for a few months on other work. On return all the vertical lines in my worksheets - eg matrix brackets, programming bars - all display as dashed lines rather than the solid lines they used to be. I haven't changed computer but have changed printer. Anybody seen this, and/or have any idea how to fix it.

Regards to all.

[MikeArmstrong · Accepted solution]

Can you please provide a worksheet or screenshot?

The vertical program lines are dashed in my Prime.

[rclayton]

Mike,

Thanks for that. Maybe it has always been like that and I have never noticed it. Having been away from Prime and using Mathcad 15 it has only now filtered into my conciousness.

[MikeArmstrong]

Strangely enough I have just checked on my work machine and the lines are solid.

They are also solid in the examples in the help file.

[Werner_E]

Robert Clayton wrote:

Mike,

Thanks for that. Maybe it has always been like that and I have never noticed it. Having been away from Prime and using Mathcad 15 it has only now filtered into my conciousness.

We have had already some discussions about this nasty Prime display problem here. Its a matter of screen resolution, chosen zoom factor(not sure about that) and also printer resolution and printer driver. Some people experience the effect not at all or at least its close to unnoticeable, while for others it shows up really bad and annyoing. If you work on different machines, chances are you will notice a difference.

As far as i know there is no fix or workaround (other than to quit using Prime and go forward to Mathcad 15)

[MikeArmstrong]

Werner Exinger wrote:

Robert Clayton wrote:

Mike,

Thanks for that. Maybe it has always been like that and I have never noticed it. Having been away from Prime and using Mathcad 15 it has only now filtered into my conciousness.

We have had already some discussions about this nasty Prime display problem here. Its a matter of screen resolution, chosen zoom factor(not sure about that) and also printer resolution and printer driver. Some people experience the effect not at all or at least its close to unnoticeable, while for others it shows up really bad and annyoing. If you work on different machines, chances are you will notice a difference.

As far as i know there is no fix or workaround (other than to quit using Prime and go forward to Mathcad 15)

Cheers Werner,

On my work machine the lines look solid, but on my home machine they look horrible. It shows how much I use Prime at home that I have only just noticed the issue!!!!

[Werner_E]

I am not using Prime not that often, too. But obviously I am blessed with systems/screen resolutions/or_whatever which don't show this effect so prominently. After all, given the flaws in Prime I would consider this a minor one compared to the others.

I first got aware of this effect by various screen shots posted by Valery. Later, so far as I remember, at least two people started a thread sking about the effect and how to copa with it. As there never was a solution or workaround I guess its not woth the effort to search for those threads.

Only positive: Robert, you are not alone 😉

[rclayton]

I'm pretty sure now that this is printer driver related. On looking at print-outs of Prime 3 worksheets done on my old Epson DX printer vertical lines were solid. The exact same worksheets with Epson XP-700 drivers are dashed. Having said that it looks unlikely that there is a quick fix. It's a pity because the visual appeal of Prime worksheets is one of the few benefits of using it.

[amcgough]

Robert,

Thank you for the information. We’ve seen the vertical line issue you describe as a side-effect of systems being updated to a later version or Microsoft .NET. PTC Mathcad Prime 3.0 is based on .NET 4.0 and that is a prerequisite for its use. Microsoft has recently released .NET 4.5 and .NET 4.5.1, both of which can be installed on a Win 7.0 machine. There is an issue in those versions of .NET that affects the rendering of some graphical elements in the worksheet. We’re currently discussing this problem with Microsoft for ways they can fix the issue in future releases of .NET. For now, please can you check what version of .NET you are running. If it’s .NET 4.5 or .NET 4.5.1 you will need to revert to .NET 4.0 for the vertical lines to render correctly.

The Microsoft download for the web installer for .NET 4.0 can be found here:

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=17851

Regards,

Andrew McGough

[Werner_E]

Thanks for the information, Andrew.

Right now I am working on a machine under WinXP and .NET 4.0 and I experience that nasty effect in Prime 3.0. So it sure is not (solely) a matter of the .NET version installed.

I admit that the effect is not as cruel as on other machines, but its there and its clearly noticeable.

[amcgough]

Werner,

You are right, there is another issue that is related to some zoom levels on some machines that we've been investigating. While the .NET issue is obvious and will affect all machines that the updated .NET version is installed on, the other issue you refer to is only visible on a few system configurations at specific zoom levels.

The system information you provided is very useful for this investigation and should help the develpoment team in their investigation so I'll make sure to pass it on to them.

Many thanks,

Andrew McGough

[ValeryOchkov]

And what about Win 8?

I have problem on my Prime 3 based on Win 8.1 (Surface Pro 3).

I must manual drow normal vertical line (by help Pain) for a publications Prime pictures..

[amcgough]

Hi Valery,

PTC Mathcad Prime 3.0 is certified to run on XP, Vista and Win 7.0 using .NET 4.0. It's not certified to run on Win 8.0 or Win 8.1. Win 8.0 is installed with .NET 4.5 by default and Win 8.1 is installed with .NET 4.5.1 by default, so you'll likely see this issue on both those unsupported operating systems.

For PTC Mathcad Prime 3.1 wie'll be supporting Win 8.1 and .NET 4.5.1. Our ongoing discussions with Microsoft will determine how they will fix this issue for that release.

Regards,

Andy.

[rclayton]

Andrew, thanks for the various posts which responded to my original question. I now understand the issue, My problem is that I am not sure if any of the other programs that I run, eg AutoCad, would be affected by reverting to Net 4.0. A temporary solution would be to accept the problem on my main computer and revert a laptop to Net 4.0 for client print-outs. OK in the short term, not in the long term.

The key piece of information in your post of 05-Aug-2014 is that the problem will be fixed in Prime 3.1. I will probably hang on until then.

Regards

Robert

[amcgough]

Robert,

We will be supporting Win 8.1 and .NET 4.5.1 in PTC Mathcad Prime 3.1. However, the vertical broken line issue you see is an issue with .NET 4.5.1 itself. We're in discussions with Microsoft to determine what they can do to fix the issue. We're not yet sure what form the Microsoft solution will take or when it will be delivered.

Regards,

Andrew McGough

[MikeArmstrong]

I am running windows 8.1 and .Net 4.0 and see a broken line.

[amcgough]

Mike,

Are these broken vertical lines at all zoom levels? There is a less common issue on some system configurations where, at some zoom levels, you can see some irregular broken vertical lines. The .NET issue vertical line issue is much more regular and occurs at all zoom levels.

You say that you have WIn 8.1 and .NET 4.0 - .NET 4.5.1 is by default installed with Win 8.1, did you uninstall that version of .NET and install .NET 4.0? PTC Mathcad Prime 3.0 isn't certified to run on Win 8.1 so even with the supported version of .NET there may be some operating system issues specific to that install.

Regards,

Andrew McGough

[MikeArmstrong]

Andrew W McGough wrote:

Mike,

Are these broken vertical lines at all zoom levels? There is a less common issue on some system configurations where, at some zoom levels, you can see some irregular broken vertical lines. The .NET issue vertical line issue is much more regular and occurs at all zoom levels.

Hi Andrew,

Yes, I can see the broken lines on all zoom levels.

Andrew W McGough wrote:

You say that you have WIn 8.1 and .NET 4.0 - .NET 4.5.1 is by default installed with Win 8.1, did you uninstall that version of .NET and install .NET 4.0? PTC Mathcad Prime 3.0 isn't certified to run on Win 8.1 so even with the supported version of .NET there may be some operating system issues specific to that install.

Sorry, I was in the middle of editing my original post when you replied.

I was on Windows 7 with .NET 4.0 and now on Windows 8.1 with .NET 4.5.1 and have the same issues.

[amcgough]

Mike,

You will see this issue on Win 8.1 with .NET 4.5.1. That is an unsupported configuration for PTC Mathcad Prime 3.0 so even without the .NET 4.5.1 issue there may be other issues you see specific to the OS.

We wil be supporting Win 8.1 and .NET 4.5.1 for the PTC Mathcad Prime 3.1 release. At the same time, we're in discussions with MIcrosoft to determine what they can do to fix the .NET issue.

You certainly shouldn't see the broken vertical line issue (the way you describe it) on a Windows 7.0 machine with .NET 4.0 installed. Do you have any screenshots of the issue you can send me?

Regards,

Andrew McGough

[MikeArmstrong]

Andrew W McGough wrote:

Mike,

We wil be supporting Win 8.1 and .NET 4.5.1 for the PTC Mathcad Prime 3.1 release. At the same time, we're in discussions with MIcrosoft to determine what they can do to fix the .NET issue.

Well that's good news.

Andrew W McGough wrote:

You certainly shouldn't see the broken vertical line issue (the way you describe it) on a Windows 7.0 machine with .NET 4.0 installed. Do you have any screenshots of the issue you can send me?

Unfortunately not. I think I remember posting it in another thread, but cannot find it. It was strange because my work machine was running exactly the same the OP and .NET as my home machine and was not showing the broken line.

[HarveyHensley]

Andrew,

I have had the dashed lines since Prime 1 and I thought it was part of the new look. I am on Win 7 and Prime 3. Until the recent update to .Net 4.5 I was on 3.5.1. I can't comment on the zoom issue during the time I was on the .Net 3.5.1 because I didn't use Prime 1 much. Currently, the lines appear at all zoom levels, but that may be due to the new .Net version. My point is that there may be another problem than the one's you have mentioned.

Harvey

[MikeArmstrong]

Andrew,

A little off topic, are we going to be given some more information about Prime 3.1 and when Prime 4.0 is likely to be released.

[amcgough]

Mike,

I presented the Mathcad roadmap at PTC Live Global last month that included Prime 3.1 content, Prime 4.0 plans and beyond. I realise not everyone can attend that event so I'm putting together a blog post to cover the content that I can link to on the community. That should be up in the next few days.

Regards,

Andrew McGough

[VladimirN]

Hi Andrew,

And what is the preliminary release date of Mathcad Prime 3.1 release and Prime 4.0? Thanks.

[MikeArmstrong]

Andrew W McGough wrote:

Mike,

I presented the Mathcad roadmap at PTC Live Global last month that included Prime 3.1 content, Prime 4.0 plans and beyond. I realise not everyone can attend that event so I'm putting together a blog post to cover the content that I can link to on the community. That should be up in the next few days.

Regards,

Andrew McGough

Thanks for the information, I look forward to seeing the blog.

[JeffH1]

Andrew,

Is there any progress on this?  We're using Prime 3.0 on Windows 7 (and will be on W7 for some time) using .NET 4.5.2.  Vertical lines in programs, integrals, and expanded brackets/braces all appear with this broken-line behavior.

Is this fixed in Prime 3.1, since it uses a later version of .NET?  Is there any hope that Microsoft will fix the problem in a later release of .NET?

Regards,

Jeff

[StuartBruff]

Jeff Henning wrote:

Andrew,

Is there any progress on this?  We're using Prime 3.0 on Windows 7 (and will be on W7 for some time) using .NET 4.5.2.  Vertical lines in programs, integrals, and expanded brackets/braces all appear with this broken-line behavior.

Is this fixed in Prime 3.1, since it uses a later version of .NET?  Is there any hope that Microsoft will fix the problem in a later release of .NET?

Regards,

Jeff

Probably not too much relevance for you, but I'm running Prime 3.1 under Windows 10 using Intel HD graphics @1900x1080.   I've got .NET 4.5, 4.5.1, 4.5.2 and 4.6 on my system.  Here's a table of listing what I see at various zoom percentages.   "broken" means relatively frequent breaks in a line, "slightly broken" means less than a quarter of the potentially breakable lines are broken, "lumpy" means there are slight thickenings or protrusions where the breaks would otherwise occur, "complete" means no observable breaks and no or very few "lumps".

80 %    program lines lumpy, array lines slightly broken, integral lines complete

85 %    program lines broken, array lines slightly broken, integral lines complete

90 %    program lines broken, array lines broken, integral lines broken

95 %    program lines broken, array lines complete, integral lines complete

100 %    program lines broken, array lines broken, integral lines broken

105 %    program lines broken, array lines slightly broken, integral lines slightly broken

110 %    program lines lumpy, array lines slightly broken, integral lines slightly broken

115 %    program lines broken, array lines slightly broken, integral lines complete

120 %    program lines slightly broken, array lines broken, integral lines slightly broken

125 %    program lines broken, array lines broken, integral lines slightly broken

130 %    program lines slightly broken, array lines broken, integral lines broken

135 %    program lines broken, array lines slightly lumpy, integral lines slightly lumpy

140 %    program lines one break, array lines complete, integral lines complete

145 %    program lines slightly broken, array lines complete, integral lines complete

150 %    program lines complete, array lines complete, integral lines slightly broken

155 %    program lines broken, array lines slightly broken, integral lines slightly broken

Stuart

.

[rclayton]

I raised the original question many moons ago and had forgotten about it by a) living with it and b) using Mathcad 15 for most professional work. Coming back to Prime 3.1 and looking through the Mathcad Community  I found that the problem had been solved in March 2015!!!! If you search for this:

Multi-line equation parentheses and integral symbols display as broken / dashed lines

Posted by bedmonds in PTC Mathcad on 04-Mar-2015 13:40:00

You find a link to a Microsoft "hotfix" which I have just run and it works.

Did I miss this but I haven't received an follow up to my formal bug report or any other comunication?

[StuartBruff]

Robert Clayton wrote:

I raised the original question many moons ago and had forgotten about it by a) living with it and b) using Mathcad 15 for most professional work. Coming back to Prime 3.1 and looking through the Mathcad Community  I found that the problem had been solved in March 2015!!!! If you search for this:

Multi-line equation parentheses and integral symbols display as broken / dashed lines

Posted by bedmonds in PTC Mathcad on 04-Mar-2015 13:40:00

You find a link to a Microsoft "hotfix" which I have just run and it works.

Did I miss this but I haven't received an follow up to my formal bug report or any other comunication?

It's supposed to have been rolled up into .NET 4.6, which I have installed under Windows 10.  The broken lines are still there.

Stuart

(I tried to install the referenced hotfix but Windows wouldn't install it because either "the hotfix or a later rollup" was installed)

[rclayton]

That's a tough one - and  beyond by computing comfort zone. Loading the hotfix was about at my limit and approached with some trepidation. It has probably messed something else up and I may live to regret it.  Regards.