Gibbs diagram

[Liv]

Has someone to share a worksheet with a 3-component Gibbs (triangular) diagram already made ?

Many thanks (in advance), Liv.

There was a topic sometime ago about 3-component diagrams, but rectangular (if my souvenir is right) ; anyway, I don't know how to reach it ...

[ptc-1368288]

On 11/6/2009 12:19:40 PM, Liv wrote:
>
>
>Has someone to share a
>worksheet with a 3-component
>Gibbs (triangular) diagram
>already made ?
>
>Many thanks (in advance), Liv.
>
>There was a topic sometime ago
>about 3-component diagrams,
>but rectangular (if my
>souvenir is right) ; anyway, I
>don't know how to reach it ...
_______________________________

If you can solve one of the 3 component in relationship to another one, then you will have G(x,y), i.e: a simple (maybe not so simple) 2d function, most easily plotted in Mathcad and with a tabulated data table. Do you have your Gibbs function(s). Your question is very vague if not on paper.

jmG

[ValeryOchkov]

>Has someone to share a
>worksheet with a 3-component
>Gibbs (triangular) diagram
>already made ?
See one example on Mathcad calculation server:
http://twt.mpei.ac.ru/MCS/Worksheets/3-st-isp.xmcd
It is one task - to find x and y values (x+y<100%) with minimization on the triangular steam salinity Cs(x, y) in the boiler with a drum.
Val
http://twt.mpei.ac.ru/ochkov/v_ochkov.htm

[Liv]

Returning quite late ...

but my problem is still there !
I was wondering if data such those in Data Table 2 in file "Gibbs triangular dia.mcd" can be represented in Mathcad in a Gibbs triangular diagram.

Thanks to jmG and Val,
Liv

Btw, it's interesting the diagram from server - I'll study it a little more (my russian is a few atoms diameters above zero level).

I have by hand some other things on Gibbs 3-component diagrams. I'll post them, too ... hope not too boring ...

[Liv]

Maybe my data from Data Table 2 (in file attached to previous message) be plotted in a right-triangular diagram, using Contour plot and as guide the (already) older post in the 'Collaboratory' on the same topic type of diagram under Mcd2000 .
Or, hoping another idea from just seen VFO's Gibbs dia in server ...
But for the moment not the smallest clue !

I think some more problems may arise when trying to draw the equilibrium curve in such a rectangular diagram, because the correct arrangement of data for graphing, scarcity of data ...

Liv.

And now attached the some other things promised on Gibbs 'dias'.

[Liv]

Oops, attachements missed.

Attachements, now.

(Liv.)

[Liv]

And the last two attachements with examples of 'dias'.

Liv.

[Liv]

Otherwise ... one can use SmartSketch, but I don't remember now if it has triangular Gibbs graphs.
It would be nice if it's possible to shrink somehow the right angle in the horizontal xOy plane to 60 degrees ... (like in Val's diagram 3-st-isp.xmcd on calculation server).

Or to write a dll for calling Origin ... ? However, computers are far for being my best skills. Needless to mention about scripts ...

Once the equilibrium curve pictured in the Gibbs diagram, my final wish is to draw the operation lines in order to arrive to the determination of the number of theoretical plates. It seems this calculation will be the easiest part once the diagram available.

Best, Liv.

And, finally, some examples lately found, including this time the graphical construction for stages number determination.

[Liv]

Attachement missed. Again !
(Must go to sleep ! )

Here they are !

[ptc-1368288]

On 11/17/2009 9:33:28 PM, Liv wrote:
>
>Attachment missed. Again !
>(Must go to sleep ! )
>
>Here they are !
___________________________

It seems you are at version 2001. Then put the data in table input and attach the work sheet. Any work sheet should stand alone. *.RAR is so rare, not in my new e-machine [2005].

jmG

[TomGutman]

Plotting over a triangular base has been done. One reference is http://collab.mathsoft.com/read?112984,63 , searching should turn up others.

BTW, I suggest posting Mathcad files as MCD or XMCDZ files and not using an archiver on them. RAR files are not universally usable.
__________________
� � � � Tom Gutman

[ValeryOchkov]

May by this is a help to you:

Val
http://twt.mpei.ac.ru/ochkov/v_ochkov.htm

[Liv]

Thank you.
There are very good suggestions in yours, both Tom and Val, examples. Some further work is needed to arrive to represent equilibrium data in the Gibbs triangular diagram and then to use it in Mathcad for determination of stages in (l) - (l) extraction with the classical graphical construction. I'll have to use my geometry (or what have survived of it).

Liv.

Shall I post attachements again as ~.mcd files ? (Some of them are several Mo large, due to pictures in their content).

/ How can I go to Mathcad2001 forums ? Some time ago I was registered as a 2001 user./

[TomGutman]

What version of Mathcad do you have? For files with pictures the XMCDZ format is much smaller than the MCD format (it compresses the pictures).
__________________
� � � � Tom Gutman

[Liv]

Currently, Mcd2001. All files in rar archives are ~.mcd, 2001.

Liv.

[TomGutman]

There are no separate 2001 forums. While the name of the collaboratory would suggest that it is for MC2000 users, that is an historical accident and it is used for all Mathcad versions. Mostly MC 11 (the best version) and MC14 (the current version).
__________________
� � � � Tom Gutman

[Liv]

Thanks jmG for the link to fact : didn't know about before. It's surely very useful for people dealing with inorganic materials. My concern was the use in Mathcad of Gibbs diagrams for liquid (organic) solvents, in connection with liquid-solid and, particularly, liquid-liquid equilibria and liquid-liquid extraction.

Files were just big due to pictures included and thus problem much simpler.

Now same files in xmcdz format, as promised. Hope someone will find something interesting or useful.

Liv.

[Liv]

And the last one, with the classical graphical construction for number of stages determination in l-l extraction.

Liv.

/Better later than never, probably/.

[ptc-1368288]

"with the classical graphical construction for number of stages determination in l-l extraction"
_________________________________

There was several work sheets about MacCabbe & Thiele extraction diagram, just in case of "Chemical Processing Extraction".

jmG

[ptc-1368288]

On 11/18/2009 2:44:47 PM, Liv wrote:
>
>Thank you.
>There are very good
>suggestions in yours, both Tom
>and Val, examples. Some
>further work is needed to
>arrive to represent
>equilibrium data in the Gibbs
>triangular diagram and then to
>use it in Mathcad for
>determination of stages in (l)
>- (l) extraction with the
>classical graphical
>construction. I'll have to use
>my geometry (or what have
>survived of it).
>
>Liv.
>_____________________________

I don't understand:
Isn't true true that "Gibbs diagram" is auto & implicitly geometric?

http://www.crct.polymtl.ca/factsage/fs_pd.php

The data you have, that you have in Mathcad worksheet, in Mathcad work sheet only w/o picture ... did you check the size of that work sheet vs the compacted *.RAR. Mathcad work sheets don't compact except for the text, but data are not text ... they are just data. If you want to destroy data to a certain degree, there are methods like wavelets, fitting functions ... etc.

For the pictures (if you have and if they are raster),
plug them in a *.gif reducer, paste in Mathcad.


jmG

[JamesH]

I am not a Mathcad expert but here is a rough sheet that will Better late than never I suppose. If any of the previous posters would like to comment on the sheet that would be great.

[umario]

Thanks, Dr. James, that is exactly I was looking for!!

[Liv]

Many thanks, JamesH.

Your "triangle diagram project final.xmcd" sheet is close to what I was looking for.

Liv

[matchstickmann]

Dear James,

i am a beginner at MathCAD and I am trying to write a MathCAD script to generate a Ternary Phase Diagram for Nonsolvent-Solvent-Polymer system, based on Gibbs free energy of mixing and the Least square fitting functions. I was curious if you were already able to generate a ternary phase diagram in MathCAD, if so can you please share your script here?

Thanks in advance,

Best regards,

Mohd

P.S: Merry Christmas and a happy new year to all the MathCAD professionals and their families.

[Liv]

Or see : http://communities.ptc.com/message/148469#148469

of Mezentsev.

Liv.