MathCAD Prime 1.0 is a step back

[WalterSchrabmai]

Hi friends,

well I just must realize, that Prime is a step backward. One the one hand important functions are missing and on the other hand all the experts out in the communities who has Mathcad 14/15 can not work with the MathCad Prime worksheets as it is not backward compatibility.

I think PTC must improve PRIME quite a lot, as now the userbility is other but not better. Where is the useful collabsable region feature in Prime?

comments are welcome.

Walter

[MikeArmstrong]

Well said Valery,

It is the first release of Prime and it is bound to have teething problems. That's why PTC offered a free copy of M15 with the software, to compensate.

Converting 20,000 worksheets is good going. However I am surprised to manage to achieve it though because of all the missing features.

Mike

[Loris]

We do not need 3D-Plots! Why!?

20,000 sheets is REAL not education task!

You maybe don't need them, but many other users maybe do.

For example, I do. Of course, I could also plot a countour map but a 3d is often much more easy to unerstand. If you don't use/don't like it, just ignore it.

(and however, just converting sheet is still not "real" work)

Here some additional whishes/suggestions for the next versions (Mona, have you paper and pen?):

- functions for folder access (example, i've some files to process in a folder, how can I automatically open them all?)

- 3d plot, use a further axes to control the surface color (it would wnable to plot a 4d in 3d)

- when plotting 3d as data point, using lines (not point), please AVOID the lines connecting the end of eache matrix row to the following! Is conceptually wrong and absolute awfoul to see.

- add controls to set the apparence (axis limits, reference, resolution, rotation etc..) using variables. Maybe in bidirectional fashion.

- enable the use of right mouse button to open the contextual menu! Jeff Raskin, a guru of interface desig (that designed the apple mac pc) is still(*) complaining to have designed a single-button mouse for the mac. (*) not still, he died some years ago, but he wrote it in some of his books.

- give the user the ability to chose between the new fancy-hated menu or the old fashion detachable panels. Multimonitor system are very common now. Now I have the mathcad sheet on one monitor, and filled the other with my references and all detached tools panels. Maybe allow panels to go also on the secondary monitor.

- automatic word completion, suggesting builtin names and current sheet names.

- autosave

- ctrl-mouse scroller to change the zoom

- shift-mouse scroller to scroll left-right

Regards, Loris.

[RichardJ]

- functions for folder access (example, i've some files to process in a folder, how can I automatically open them all?)

See here: Extra Components.mcd

(Of course, being components, these do not work in Prime)

- autosave

This exists in version 15.

[Loris]

- functions for folder access (example, i've some files to process in a folder, how can I automatically open them all?)

See here: Extra Components.mcd

(Of course, being components, these do not work in Prime)

Thanks a lot! it's a gold mine!

I also need the ability to multiple select in a listbox, I found another your script http://communities.ptc.com/message/30658?tstart=0 , and tried it, but it doesn't refresh the item list once loaded the first time, while a listbox I found in the extra componets does it.

Do you have a way to fix it?

(my problem is: I have some files in a folder, I can use a listbox to select the one to open, then I want to use another listbox to chose which file features I want to see. files are not equal, so the numebr of features available can change, it's why I need a listbox capable to multiple selections and to refresh once a new file is loaded)

Thanks Loris.

[RichardJ]

Yes, it can be fixed

[mzeftel]

Loris,

I'll log your feature requests.

3D plots will be in Mathcad Prime 2.0.

Can you explain in more detail or provide an example of what you mean by:

"3d plot, use a further axes to control the surface color (it would wnable to plot a 4d in 3d)"

Thanks for the suggestions,

Mona

[RichardJ]

Can you explain in more detail or provide an example of what you mean by:

"3d plot, use a further axes to control the surface color (it would wnable to plot a 4d in 3d)"

I know exactly what is wanted. You have vectors or matrices for x, y, and z. They define the positions of points, or the surface, relative to the axes. What would be very useful would be the ability to be able to pass a fourth vector or matrix to the graph that defines the surface color at the corresponding x-y location. I would also like something similar in 2D plots: the ability to pass a third vector to the graph that defines the point style (size, shape, and color). I have asked for these in the past.

[Loris]

Mona Zeftel wrote:

Loris,

I'll log your feature requests.

3D plots will be in Mathcad Prime 2.0.

Can you explain in more detail or provide an example of what you mean by:

"3d plot, use a further axes to control the surface color (it would wnable to plot a 4d in 3d)"

Thanks for the suggestions,

Mona

Sure I try to explain, let me know if is not clear.

Now in M15 you can turn on the colormap in 3d plors, it can be useful, but don't provide any further information than the 3d plot itself or the 2d surface contourplot/colormap, since both are a way to represent a 3d data. Colours in 3d are dedoundant, since the 3rd dimension information is already represented in the Z axis.

Now, ilmagine to have to represent a property over a three dimensional surface, example the diffrent temperatures over a semispherical surface.

With M15 you cannot, since once you plot the surface, you cannot do nothing more.

What I would like to have is teh ability to "paint" the 3d surface with a colormap from another vector. This is a way to represent (i guess) a 4D line (in the same way the 3d plot don't plot a space but a surface). This would be useful in some situations, and should be quite easy to implement.

More tricky to implement

- 3d surface vector field plot, not useful for me in particular, but probably apreciated from people working with aerodinamics and electrical fields

- 3d space density plot (a NxNxN matrix, where every position represents one density in a full 3d space), can be represented using trasparence. In this case you could allow plotting complx number using the density for real and a colormap to represent the imaginary part. But I see that is not trivial to implement properly.

Regards, Loriano

[mzeftel]

Loris and Richard,

Thanks for the explanations, which I've added to the request. It's much clearer now.

Thanks,

Mona

[MikeArmstrong]

While I don't like pestering about features in Prime, here is a list of the following features I need to be able to convert to Prime fully.

• Page border - not really required but they have been used for years in our standard calculations.
• Collapsed areas.
• Excel components - I believe these are being included.
• Text and variables formatting - close to M15.

Can you confirm that the above are being implemented, or at least considered?

Mike

[mzeftel]

Hi Mike,

I can confirm that all are being considered for Mathcad Prime 3.0 (the features are not yet scheduled).

Mathcad Prime 2.0 will include:

• collapsed areas,
  
• the Excel component,
  
• 64-bit
  
• symbolic math
  
• 3D plots
  

Best,

Mona

[MikeArmstrong]

I can confirm that all are being considered for Mathcad Prime 3.0 (the features are not yet scheduled).

Mathcad Prime 2.0 will include:

• collapsed areas,
• the Excel component,
• 64-bit
• symbolic math
• 3D plots

Hi Mona,

That sounds better news than I expected. Those components being installed Prime 2.0 are key to the use of Mathcad. Will new features also be included?

Mike

[Loris]

Hi Mona,

you're welcome, I hope to find in Prime 2 all the feature we are requiring

Why don't you open a discussion (maybe stitched in the forum structure) for asking for features?

I've another item for your list:

- a function to cut away some rows or column from a matrix (es delrow(M,rs,re) delete rows from rs to re of matrix M, idem for delcol() .. something opposite to submatrix function )

Loris

[mzeftel]

Hi Loris,

We already set up a group for discussing feature requests. Look under the Groups icon, above, which looks like intersecting circles above. It's called Enhancing Mathcad.

And we are implementing voting on features sometime later this year. Stay tuned, it's in progress.

Mona

[MikeArmstrong]

And we are implementing voting on features sometime later this year. Stay tuned, it's in progress.

Mona

That's a superb idea Mona. Hopefully this will give all forum contributes to have their say in the development of Mathcad

Mike

[Loris]

Mona Zeftel wrote:

Hi Loris,

We already set up a group for discussing feature requests. Look under the Groups icon, above, which looks like intersecting circles above. It's called Enhancing Mathcad.

And we are implementing voting on features sometime later this year. Stay tuned, it's in progress.

Mona

Thanks, Mona!

I found it, I suggest however to place a sticky post in the main forum, that would be more easy to found (I admit that I skipped the right column since is often not relevant, and I'm afraid I'm not alone, since there is a post per month, since in this thread we 've got 10 suggestions in a week)

Bye, Loris.

PS there is a bug in the forum, if you are in the recent post of a room (in my case enhancing mathcad), and change the post per page from 25 to 50, it shows not the current room posts but the whole forum posts.

[MikeArmstrong]

- a function to cut away some rows or column from a matrix (es delrow(M,rs,re) delete rows from rs to re of matrix M, idem for delcol() .. something opposite to submatrix function )

We already have this in Mathcad 15, all be it a user defined function.

Mike

[MikeArmstrong]

- give the user the ability to chose between the new fancy-hated menu or the old fashion detachable panels. Multimonitor system are very common now. Now I have the mathcad sheet on one monitor, and filled the other with my references and all detached tools panels. Maybe allow panels to go also on the secondary monitor.

This is a very good suggestion. I would like to be able to open two Mathcad documents and display them on different monitors. Mathcad is the only piece of software that I use which restricts this.

Mike

[ValeryOchkov]

loriano galeotti wrote:

We do not need 3D-Plots! Why!?

20,000 sheets is REAL not education task!

You maybe don't need them, but many other users maybe do.

I mean that developers of Mathcad Prime should first make a basic right things (text indexes for example), and then, if nothing else will do, you can start decorating - to introduce more complex graphics, etc.

Why users criticized the Mathcad Prime now in the world - because developers of Mathcad Prime do not what we need in first line (text indexex for example) but what they like (3D plots for example). Of course, I myself often doing so

[RichardJ]

What do you mean by "text indexes"? Do you mean automatically building something like a table of contents?

[ValeryOchkov]

Richard Jackson wrote:

What do you mean by "text indexes"? Do you mean automatically building something like a table of contents?

As sub- and superscript in Word!

[RichardJ]

As sub- and superscript in Word!

I see. Yes, I agree those are basic requirements. But that just brings me back to what I have said many times. The problem with Prime is that it is missing very many basic requirements. I do not consider 3D plots "decoration", I consider them another basic requirement. Until Prime has all those basic requirements it is of no use to me. If version 2 has superscripts and subscripts for text, but no 3D plots, I can't use it. But if version 2 has 3D plots, but no superscripts and subscripts for text, I also can't use it. It's like asking "if you are building a car, which is the higher priority for version 1: the wheels, the engine, the steering wheel, or the brakes?".

[ValeryOchkov]

Richard Jackson wrote:

As sub- and superscript in Word!

I see.

It's like asking "if you are building a car, which is the higher priority for version 1: the wheels, the engine, the steering wheel, or the brakes?".

3D Plot is... a roof rack

[MikeArmstrong]

3D Plot is... a roof rack

1 million percent agree. PTC should be looking at the basic features before 3D plots.

Mike

[RichardJ]

1 million percent agree. PTC should be looking at the basic features before 3D plots.

Maybe you and Valery don't have a need for 3D plots, but you do not represent 100% of the user base.Sometimes I need to visualize a surface, in which case a 3D plot is a basic feature. I am sure I am not alone.

[Loris]

Richard Jackson ha scritto:

1 million percent agree. PTC should be looking at the basic features before 3D plots.

Maybe you and Valery don't have a need for 3D plots, but you do not represent 100% of the user base.Sometimes I need to visualize a surface, in which case a 3D plot is a basic feature. I am sure I am not alone.

1 billion percent agree

I often plot 3d, and never needed superscript or subscript (or maybe I don't understad what it is). Just to say that user needs could be different.

Main problem, as said by Mike, is that Prime MUST have the samefeatures as M5, and THEN add / improve features.

I however think that is weird that the developers don't see the need to have 3d plots.. while I as user see one of the main features of mathcad (one of the motivation to choose mathcad instead matlab for some duties)

[MikeArmstrong]

I however think that is weird that the developers don't see the need to have 3d plots.. while I as user see one of the main features of mathcad (one of the motivation to choose mathcad instead matlab for some duties)

What makes you think the developers don't see the need for 3D plots. I know they were not included in Prime 1.0, but are in Prime 2.0, which indicates that they feel they are required.

Mike

[MikeArmstrong]

Maybe you and Valery don't have a need for 3D plots, but you do not represent 100% of the user base.Sometimes I need to visualize a surface, in which case a 3D plot is a basic feature. I am sure I am not alone.

I understand that me and Valery do not represent all users, but I believe the majoprity of users would rather have all the basic features that Mathcad has inplace before 3D plots or any other features to be honest. Whats the points of having 3D plots if one can't even formnat the worksheet to coincide with their employers needs.

Mike

[RichardJ]

I believe the majoprity of users would rather have all the basic features that Mathcad has inplace before 3D plots or any other features to be honest.

If what you need is a plot of a surface, 3D plots are a basic feature!

Whats the points of having 3D plots if one can't even formnat the worksheet to coincide with their employers needs.

You are still looking at it entirely from your perspective. Just as not everyone needs 3D plots, not everyone needs specific formatting. I don't need any specific formatting. My employer is me. Not having superscripts or subscripts is a pain, but it's not a show stopper. I can write x^2, for example. It looks like crap, but I know what it means. But if I need to plot a surface and I don't have 3D plots, then that is a show stopper! Sometimes (quite often, in fact) I need to process several hundred data files in a folder. The only way to do that is to use a scripted component to get the list of filenames (and the fact that this capability is not built in to Mathcad in the first place is a big failing of Mathcad!). There is no way to do it in Prime. If that's what I need to do then Prime can have all the formatting in the world, but it is still completely and utterly useless to me.

For me, that is the crux of the problem. I am not going to program half my stuff in MC15 and half in Prime. Especially not since if I hit a road block in Prime I can't save back to MC15 format! So every feature that I need is equally basic. A car without an engine is just as useless as a car without wheels. And if you need to use the car to transport a canoe, a roofrack is not just "decoration", it's as essential as the engine and wheels are.

[MikeArmstrong]

You are still looking at it entirely from your perspective. Just as not everyone needs 3D plots, not everyone needs specific formatting. I don't need any specific formatting. My employer is me. Not having superscripts or subscripts is a pain, but it's not a show stopper. I can write x^2, for example. It looks like crap, but I know what it means. But if I need to plot a surface and I don't have 3D plots, then that is a show stopper! Sometimes (quite often, in fact) I need to process several hundred data files in a folder. The only way to do that is to use a scripted component to get the list of filenames (and the fact that this capability is not built in to Mathcad in the first place is a big failing of Mathcad!). There is no way to do it in Prime. If that's what I need to do then Prime can have all the formatting in the world, but it is still completely and utterly useless to me.

Ok, well this discussion is telling me one thing. Prime 2.0 must at least match Mathcad 15 capabilities.

For me, that is the crux of the problem. I am not going to program half my stuff in MC15 and half in Prime. Especially not since if I hit a road block in Prime I can't save back to MC15 format! So every feature that I need is equally basic. A car without an engine is just as useless as a car without wheels. And if you need to use the car to transport a canoe, a roofrack is not just "decoration", it's as essential as the engine and wheels are.

Yes, yes I agree. All the feature are important otherwise they wouldn't have been there in the first place. In all honestly, I cannot see Prime 2.0 being at the same level as M15.

Mike