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how to slove the equation set

ptc-5025903
1-Visitor

how to slove the equation set

there is a equation set,how to use mc to slove 1.jpg

slove 2.jpgandQQ%E6%88%AA%E5%9B%BE20130329164815.jpg

16 REPLIES 16
Werner_E
25-Diamond I
(To:ptc-5025903)

Mathcad was not able to find a symbolic solution (see attached).

Maybe more luck if you try clever substitutions / rewriting the equations, using keyword assume (e.g. assume, ALL>0). Symbolic evaluations can get tricky very quick.

For a numeric solution you would have to provide values for the involved five constants and guess values for the two solved for variables. Find in the attached sheet a solve block which was parameterized and turned into aa easy to handle function.

if we eliminate phi2QQ%E6%88%AA%E5%9B%BE20130329221137.jpg

we let QQ%E6%88%AA%E5%9B%BE20130329221228.jpgand because 3.jpg

so we can slove 4.jpg

above all ,we can slove in paper ,but how can we slove in mathcad?

lee0714 李 wrote:

... but how can we slove in mathcad?

Like so?

howb.PNG

Alan

Werner_E
25-Diamond I
(To:AlanStevens)

AlanStevens wrote:

lee0714 李 wrote:

/servlet/JiveServlet/downloadImage/2-201078-47811/4.jpg

... but how can we slove in mathcad?

Like so?

Don't think so, as we should solve for phi2 AND phi3 simultaneously.

Werner_E
25-Diamond I
(To:ptc-5025903)

above all ,we can slove in paper ,but how can we slove in mathcad?

not that easy because mathcad is not so clever as we are.

In fact, symbolics never was the strong side of Mathcad.

And then you have to keep in mind that Mathcads symbolics usually considers more cases than we usually do. Ver often we use assumptions we are not really aware of. For example that variables are real, not complex, that some variables will be positive, that a function would be unique (while considering all cases it is not), etc. Especially trig functions and logarithms can be very tricky with this respect. So Mathcad would try to consider all cases possible and therefore often does not arrive at the simple solution we have in mind. Mathcad does not give us many way to manipulate the outcome of a sole or simplification and simetimes rewrite and especially assume do not work correct and Mathcad would ignore it.

But if you have a specific way to solve a task in mind, odten you can at least let Mathcad help you a bit with the boring routine manipulations.

See attached a manual elimination of phi2 to solve for phi3. I know its dissappointing that Mathcad can't do it on its own, though. But then, maybe someone comes up with a clever combination of sunstitutes, assumes, rewrites which do the trick.

how3.png

so it looks hard to use mathcad to slove this problem ,sometimes we also could manual calculation

lee0714 李 wrote:

so it looks hard to use mathcad to slove this problem ,sometimes we also could manual calculation

As Werner said, we are sometimes cleverer than Mathcad (as long as we read the question properly!). Mathcad's symbolics aren't perfect and often need a helping hand. In this case some obvious initial substitutions can work wonders! see attached.

Alan

Sorry.

I want at first know what physical phenomenon described by a system of equations, and then try to solve this system.

This system of equations is the mechanical principle of four bar linkage with complex number vector equations are listed,so it must be reasonable。

lee0714 李 wrote:

This system of equations is the mechanical principle of four bar linkage

Welcome to the Group

http://communities.ptc.com/groups/kinematic-models-in-mathcad

...with complex number vector equations are listed,so it must be reasonable

Show the picture please

1.jpg

2.jpg

3.jpg

4.jpg

We can do it without complex number

See for example the picture 5 (and others) here - http://twt.mpei.ac.ru/ochkov/Mathcad-15/kinematic.html

Valery Ochkov wrote:

We can do it without complex number

Sure, but I know that the way of representing it with complex numbers is very common in mechanics and kinematics literature, as is the series of elimination steps which lee sketched.

Nevertheless I hadn't recognized the formulas and thought they were parts of some kind of coordinate transformations ;-).

See for example the picture 5 (and others) here - http://twt.mpei.ac.ru/ochkov/Mathcad-15/kinematic.html

Think we would have to see the worksheets to judge which approach would be more suitable (and for what purpose?).

Its a big difference if you are after a closed, general and exaxt analytical solution as it was aked for here of if you are happy with a numeric one for specific values as I had presented it in my first reply and as you do in your animation sheets.

Of course I think that for most practical purposes a numeric solution will be sufficent, but its not for us to criticize (which you hadn't done, I know) someone looking for a symbolic one.

But finally Alan had succes and provided a way to let Mathcad find a symbolic solution. The honour of Mathcad is restored - thanks Alan!

thank you all the same ~

thank you for disscussing though I don not know the Russian

lee0714 李 wrote:

thank you for disscussing though I don not know the Russian

Ai du not nou Inglish tuu bat Ai nou Guugle translator

PS

When I was in China (with topics on Mathcad), I used a taxi so. I showed to a taxi driver (he had not spoken English) on the city map, where do I go, and taxi driver showed me on the speedometer, how much it will cost in yuan. And we fine understood each other!

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