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10-08-2013
01:28 AM

10-08-2013
01:28 AM

Circuit analysis

I'm not exactly sure what is causing the error of if I'm doing something completely wrong

Circuit is shown

17 REPLIES 17

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10-08-2013
06:40 AM

10-08-2013
06:40 AM

Re: Circuit analysis

I am a bit confused about the initial conditions. As I see it both currents I1 and I2 would be zero for t=0 (which obviously should denote the close of the switch.

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10-08-2013
07:44 AM

10-08-2013
07:44 AM

Re: Circuit analysis

Your second equation contents not derivatives but divisions and multiplications

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10-08-2013
07:47 AM

10-08-2013
07:47 AM

Re: Circuit analysis

Assuming that the capacitor is fully discharged (Vc= 0) I think that it is possible to achieve 3mA load on the voltage source. this csn be split to initial currents of 2.5mA into the capacitor & 0.5mA into the inductor or just 3mA int the capacitor & 0 into the inductor.

This doesn't match with the schematic drawn, the cap here will be fully charged to 20V long before you can close the switch.

As to problems with the Mathcad sheet.

It is difficult to understand the relevance of the equations given, I would be tempted to re-write them as much simpler equations describing the node voltages & currents:

Vsw(itch & Vc(ap will suffice for the additional voltage nodes

& the currents

Iv (current out of the voltage source)

Ic (into the capacitor)

I.L (into the Inductor)

Defining variables such as R1: 5000 will also help to simplify the equations.

Regards

Andy

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10-08-2013
07:53 AM

10-08-2013
07:53 AM

Re: Circuit analysis

Your second equation contents not derivatives but divisions and multiplications

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10-08-2013
08:46 AM

10-08-2013
08:46 AM

Re: Circuit analysis

It is for Prime - with Units

See http://www.math24.ru/oscillations-in-electrical-circuits.html

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10-08-2013
04:14 PM

10-08-2013
04:14 PM

Re: Circuit analysis

There were a bunch of errors in your file which could have been easily avoided by using, reading and paying attention to Mathcads help files!

- As Valery pointed out you did not use the derivation operator in the second equation but simply typed a similar looking fraction
- for initial values you must use the prime character, not the derivation operator
- q1 would be first, q2 second order. So you need just three initial conditions, not six, as you try to provide.
- you used the Odesolve command the wrong way. As you had set up a system of ODEs with two functions, the first parameter of Odesolve() has to be a vector with the names of those functions.
- The result of Odesolve will be two (pseudo) functions, so on the LHS of the assignment you should provide an apropriate vector.

Furthermore, as was already stated, your initial conditions are definitely wrong, if we assume that t=0 would be the moment the switch is closed. All currents would be zero at that moment and the capacitor voltage could be assumed to be 20 V.

I also think that t=1 as endpoint is too big. After one second you will not see any more noticeable changes in your curcuit.

Nonetheless, Odesolve can be a stubborn beast and may be very sensible about the way you write your equations, So I have provided a solution to your problem but I followed a slightly different way in setting up the equations and throw overboard the charge functions. It seemed to me that you don't need them and their sole purpose was to get rid of the integral you get for the cap voltage.

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10-08-2013
09:23 PM

10-08-2013
09:23 PM

Re: Circuit analysis

Fine work, Werner! I done someone for hydro circuits

I repeate it is a task for Prime.

But we can use pseudounits in M15 - see please the attach

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10-09-2013
03:12 AM

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10-09-2013
10:11 AM

10-09-2013
10:11 AM

Re: Circuit analysis

Yeah, coil voltage during the first microsecond is interesting.

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10-09-2013
10:18 AM

10-09-2013
10:18 AM

Re: Circuit analysis

All is interesting.

When I created this sheet in Prime I remembered my childhood, when I assembled my first crystal radio set...

Can we model this device now in Mathcad?

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10-09-2013
10:48 AM

10-09-2013
10:48 AM

Re: Circuit analysis

Can we model this device in Mathcad

Feel free to do so 😉

Detector radios feom the "good old time" (really??).

The most simply one

and the most chemical one (?)

But I think we should stop posting offtopics now or Zac will not be able to find the answer to his question amongst all the other postings - in case he still is interested.

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10-09-2013
11:06 AM

10-09-2013
11:06 AM

Re: Circuit analysis

Sorry, last reply!

I have used one haft of potatoes as a electrolytic detector

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10-09-2013
10:36 AM

10-09-2013
10:36 AM

Re: Circuit analysis

Werner Exinger wrote:

Yeah, coil voltage during the first microsecond is interesting.

Or Mathcad tools is interesting

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10-11-2013
04:24 AM

10-11-2013
04:24 AM

Re: Circuit analysis

Werner Exinger wrote:

Yeah, coil voltage during the first microsecond is interesting.

Stiff differential equations.

One other example:

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10-09-2013
06:08 AM

10-09-2013
06:08 AM

Re: Circuit analysis

Valery Ochkov wrote:

Fine work, Werner! I done someone for hydro circuits

I repeate it is a task for Prime.

But we can use pseudounits in M15 - see please the attach

Thanks.

Your pseudounits are a nice idea but may be confusing if the worksheet is longer and you want to do calculations with real units afterwards, too. I'd rather strip the units for the solver and after odesolve did its work you may add them to the solutions via i.C(t):=i.C(t)*A. So the functions would yield real units to be used later.

As the originial post was w/o units I didn't bother doing so, though.

The better intgeration of units (matrices with units of different dimensions, use of units in odesolve, etc. ) sure is one of the very few advantages of Prime over MC15.

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10-10-2013
05:31 AM

10-10-2013
05:31 AM

Re: Circuit analysis

Werner Exinger wrote:

- As Valery pointed out you did not use the derivation operator in the second equation but simply typed a similar looking fraction

Welcome to the Ward#28 in the Mathcad House:

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10-15-2013
02:21 AM

10-15-2013
02:21 AM

Re: Circuit analysis

thanks for all the responses guys, I understand now from what Werner explained