Re: Mathcad links with Prode Physical Properties

HarveyHensley · ‎Dec 16, 2012

I have some exciting news for chemical engineers. The Prode Physical Properties (PPP) program and databank has been linked to Mathcad 15 via a dll. Now, for a fairly reasonable price (about $400 US), you can have access to physical property data for 1635 components and over 200 functions to access data and set values in the databank and in streams, perform flashes and other process operations.

PTC and I have been building the dll linking file for several months. I purchased the basic version of PPP and the dll is built upon that platform. The extended version contains some more VLE models and some more advanced process models. but I felt the basic version was the best option. As an independent consultant, I needed a low cost access to a good databank that would provide the properties needed for vapor/liq and vapor/liq/liq equilibria for a large number of compounds. The PPP system provides that and a bonus of the functions for stream and databank interactions.

Although engineers in large corporations have access to large, expensive physical property databases, they too may find this PPP/Mathcad combination to be an attractive option. Mathcad is often used when modeling special problems that the process simulation packages can't handle. With the addition of PPP, the Mathcad simulation can easily handle phase equilibria, both ideal and non-ideal. In addition, properties such as heat capacity, viscosity and heat of formation are readily available within the program. This saves time obtaining the required input for the simulation.

This Mathcad/PPP system is not intended to be a complete process simulation package. I anticipate using it for very small sections of a process, say a reactor with an overhead condenser. It also could be used for looking at multiphase problems in tubes or porous media, for example.

At this time, I don't know what arrangements PTC and Prode will make regarding pricing and delivery. That may depend upon customer interest. If you are interested, please vote in the poll here.

Oscar Delgado provided a Prime 1 worksheet that sized an air receiver using the SRK equation of state and water vapor pressure from an Antoine equation. I have written a Mathcad 15 version using PPP. The pdf version of that worksheet is attached. The PPP version doesn't require coding of the equation of state or the vapor pressure equation. All properties needed by those equations are already provided by the databank.

You may read more about the Prode software at prode.com.

Acknowledgements: Chris Hartmann (no longer at PTC) helped obtain the development support. That support was provided by John Sheehan.

ValeryOchkov · ‎Dec 16, 2012

I think that large and heavy packages on the properties of substances (as PPP - se above) have no future.
Links to cloud functions on the properties of substances have a future.

Why!?

I want to solve one problem. I do not want (can) buy, install on your computer, learn how to work with large and heavy package on the properties of substances.
I want to solve the problem, make reference to 3-7 cloud functions on the properties of substances, to make them visible in my calculations and solve my problem.

The main substance on earth iswater and steame.
Solving a problem with water/steam, I can buy, install on my computer, learn how to work with the large and heavy (and best in the World!) WaterSteamPro.

But I can only do 1-7 links on WSP cloud functions on properties water/steam.

See please - http://twt.mpei.ac.ru/ochkov/WSPHB/Web-function-Power-Eng.pdf

I can send this calculation to one my colleague on the other side of the world and he will be able to work with these calculations, without the expensive and tedious trouble with installation of additional packages.

ValeryOchkov · ‎Dec 17, 2012

And second!

If I see an error in a cloud function on my server, sorry, cloud or I can do it better - I do it and all users of this function have a new functions!

I must in same case by using "large and heavy packages" wait for a new release of it!

ELSID · ‎Dec 17, 2012

Valery,

I love the cloud functionality. But as usual, many companies/engineers, require having the function/sheet in their posession. Your forte, power companies, are a prime example of requireing to have the sheets on their server after validating their results.

Yes, cloud is impressive and keeps sheets small ... if your work allows you to use it. If not, it willl be tied into the WAN and your client/3rd party reviewer may not have access to YOUR cloud (WAN)

ValeryOchkov · ‎Dec 18, 2012

"I can calculate very quickly" - Computer said.

"I can connect all together" - Internet said.
"I can find all" - Google said.
"I know all" - Wikipedia said.
"Silent, my slaves! Or I turned you off" - Electricity said.

So we often talk at the Moscow Power Engineering Institute - my Alma Mater.

ptc-4891590 · ‎Dec 21, 2012

Valery Ochkov,

I do not agree with your comment,

cloud could be ok to share photos, documents etc.

but I prefer to have all my project files under control in my computer,

I do not wish to stop my work cause a bad connection,

I do not wish to share all my works (cloud may be safe but who knows?),

I do not wish to expose my computer to everyone possible access,

cloud is not a new world, almost all resources (including Mathcad and Prode Properties) could be distributed over the net, you can do that easily with the actual technology but that doesn't mean there are no problems,

it may be that Prode will make Prode Properties available in that way but as said I prefer to have it installed and executed locally.

for example, I have Mathcad installed on my laptop and I do not see any advantage to access an external copy, external archives etc.

if I wish to calculate properties of Water even the free version of Prode Properties includes IAPWS 1995

ptc-4891590 · ‎Dec 21, 2012

Harvey Hensley,

thsnk you for the post !

In my work I utilize Excel, Mathcad and Prode Properties,

the possibility to link Prode Properties to Mathcad is a good news

ptc-4891739 · ‎Dec 21, 2012

good news!

Prode includes many features not limited to phase equilibria,

you can, for example, model a centrifugal compressor

a pipeline etc.

Does the Mathcad dll include all the functions in the library?

How can I get a copy to test the Mathcad-Prode dll link ?

ValeryOchkov · ‎Dec 21, 2012

Matt Belloni wrote:
Valery Ochkov,
I do not agree with your comment,
cloud could be ok to share photos, documents etc.
but I prefer to have all my project files under control in my computer,
I do not wish to stop my work cause a bad connection,
I do not wish to share all my works (cloud may be safe but who knows?),
I do not wish to expose my computer to everyone possible access,
cloud is not a new world, almost all resources (including Mathcad and Prode Properties) could be distributed over the net, you can do that easily with the actual technology but that doesn't mean there are no problems,
it may be that Prode will make Prode Properties available in that way but as said I prefer to have it installed and executed locally.
for example, I have Mathcad installed on my laptop and I do not see any advantage to access an external copy, external archives etc.
if I wish to calculate properties of Water even the free version of Prode Properties includes IAPWS 1995

Dear Matt, thanks for comments.

See please my comments and questions on your comments:

>could be ok to share photos, documents etc.

Sorry, no only

>if I wish to calculate properties of Water even the free version of Prode Properties includes IAPWS 1995

1. Why not IAPWS IF-97?

2. Can you use units of Prode water/steam properties in Mathcad?

>I do not wish to expose my computer to everyone possible access

If someone want to do it he can do it without cloud

Etc

ptc-4891590 · ‎Dec 21, 2012

Dear Valery Ochkov,

your comments are appreciated,

>if I wish to calculate properties of Water even the free version of Prode Properties includes IAPWS 1995

>1. Why not IAPWS IF-97?

>2. Can you use units of Prode water/steam properties in Mathcad?

I prefer IAPWS 1995 over IF-97 cause IAPWS 97 is a reduced version for industrial use (I presume you refer to that version), it has been conceived to be faster but in my tests with Prode and Chemicalogic they run at about the same speed, with the advantage for IAPWS 1995 to be more accurate.

Concerning you second question I can only say that with Prode Properties I can calculate Water/Steam properties in Excel and other applications, it would be great to have the same features in Mathcad!

>I do not wish to expose my computer to everyone possible access

>If someone want to do it he can do it without cloud

altough I understand your enthusiasm four cloud technology allow me to spend a few words about cons, let us consider only a few aspects

a) for cloud the main drawback is probably the very low speed in data exchange between server and terminals, this means that for usual number crunching (not file sharing) you need to install an application (including proprietary algorithms etc.) in the server (differently total times of execution would be exceedingly long), this could be Ok for a company servers (i.e. a server owned and managed directly, which fulfills all the necessary policies for privacy) but at present for public servers there are no safe policies.

b) one of the main advantages which you list for cloud is synchronization, but with actual thencology you can easily get your local copy of application (i.e. executable) synchronized with any distribution copy residing in a remote server, allmost any installation software is capable to do automatic downloads and installs of new versions

c) you can easily put a library as Prode Properties in a server (think for example to Windows Azure, the Microsoft's Cloud Platform ), but there is no reason to do that considering the resources available in laptop or desktop computers,

for small terminals things are different but I hope that the most part of engiineers do not wish to utilize their smartphone to design a plant

there are many other aspects which we could discuss here but I fear that the topic is not of interest of the readers,

the blog discussing Mathcad links with Prode Physical Properties.

ValeryOchkov · ‎Dec 21, 2012

IAPWS 95 and IAPWS IF-97

http://twt.mpei.ac.ru/ochkov/WSPHB/iapws95-97surface.PNG

HarveyHensley · ‎Dec 21, 2012

Basil,

The Mathcad dll will include everything that is in the Basic version of Prode Properties. That includes th compressor, etc. The Extended version of Prode has a few extra process modules that will not be included at this time.

The dll is not quite complete. A few of the functions were apparently omitted from the ppp.lib for the c++ users. Prode needs to supply a new library. Some of the functions use vectors and matrices. Those have not been built into the dll yet.

I have built a Mathcad file that tests all of the functions. It too needs more examples for the process functions. I will make it available to PTC when it's finished. It will be handy to check Prode maintenance updates for completeness.

When it's ready, PTC will probably make an annoucement. I just couldn't wait to let people know this was almost here when I saw how well it worked.

Harvey

ptc-4892708 · ‎Dec 22, 2012

thanks!

ptc-4893846 · ‎Dec 24, 2012

Mr. Hensley,

does the Matchcad dll allow to print a phase diagram (phase envelope) ?

does the Matchcad dll export the derivatives of fugacity/enthalpy/volume (for dynamic simulation) ?

Thank you,

Marcel

HarveyHensley · ‎Dec 24, 2012

Marcel,

Marcel Pelissier wrote:

Mr. Hensley,

does the Matchcad dll allow to print a phase diagram (phase envelope) ?

does the Matchcad dll export the derivatives of fugacity/enthalpy/volume (for dynamic simulation) ?

Thank you,

Marcel

Those are the functions that are still not in the dll because they include vectors. They should be included when it is released. So far, only functions with scalar results have been tested. Thanks for your interest. The vector functions and a few missing scalar functions will probably not be available until after the holidays, i.e. in the first of January.

Pleaee vode in the poll to indicate your interest (or not) in this link to Prode Properties.

OscarJ. · ‎Jan 16, 2013

Good morning,

I believe those are great news for all chemical engineers working with MathCad. In my opinion sometimes is not that easy to look for reliable constants, equations and other physical properties required when performing our calculations. Moreover, this process (look for and copy the values/expressions) always has some risk related with a wrong digit, coma or sign. Therefore, having such database helps to reduce those “really-really-hard-to-catch” mistakes.

I think the cloud computing is the next stage in engineering. The opportunity to access your work and your information anywhere (office/home/plant/client’s office/etc.) is very interesting but at this moment I have some concerns related with security. I am by no means a Cloud computing “expert”, but I think we need to wait a few years before when can start working in very important (and very confidential) projects in this way. Meanwhile, we can incorporate this new tool in our daily calculations.

Really big news for Chemical Engineers…

Regards,

Oscar J.

ValeryOchkov · ‎Jan 16, 2013

Oscar Delgado wrote:
Good morning,
... but at this moment I have some concerns related with security.
Regards,
Oscar J.

You can download a cloud function and work with it without an Internet connection.

ptc-4920082 · ‎Jan 17, 2013

as noted by Oscar Delgado the integration of Mathcad with a tool which includes equations and physical properties appears to be very interesting,

cloud is not required, yes we have Dechema, DDB etc. but these have been online for many years now, it's not new technology,

what I hope this tool will do is the possibility to solve simple problems as physical properties, separations etc. with Mathcad without to run a large simulator.