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When MathCad Prime 6?

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Re: When MathCad Prime 6?

Konrad,

 

I subscribe to your view wholeheartedly. I'm also doing pressure vessel calculations according to code. The document I built in MC15 works very well for this purpose and it is impossible to translate its functionality to MC Prime.

Maybe Scilab is a good idea. I shall have a look.

 

Raiko

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Re: When MathCad Prime 6?

Raiko,

 

I'm considering Scilab/Octave/Sage (ie clones of Matlab) for their total scriptability. This is the area where Mathcad stopped its development. Suppose you make a generic Mathcad file with calculations of a standard product, but the product has few versions. I don't know, let's say a pressure vessel can have 2 or 3 nozzles. You make 3 chapters, each with all calculations for the nozzle, and simply hide the 3rd section when it's not needed. Then you realise that there are hundreds of these options, some calculations are only applicable when other conditions are on or off- it stops being manually controllable (and the TOC is a nightmare). You need automatic scripting to do all this logic- on the level higher than the document itself. Mathcad is not an option- you can't control the document this way.

 

Another example is naming variables. Following design codes (particularly when there's more than one code in a job), you always get few different variables with the same name. No problem: you add some prefix, postfix, ie you change the name a bit. Then a stubborn inspector starts winging: it's not what the code book says, your formula looks different. Sure, you can't use any aliases, or local variable names. Your P is the same P from page 1 to the end, and if you redefine it- it's lost.

 

There's more fundamental problems which can't be solved with Mathcad, and will never be with the current pace of development. These are not mathematical problems, just the way your concept is presented on paper. Definitely, not the highest priority for PTC.

 

I remember my first comments to Andrey after I saw an early version of his SMath- similar problems of presentability, clarity, etc. He took it seriously and addressed it ages ago...

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Re: When MathCad Prime 6?

Wow, my reply has been removed by the Admin. Cool forum!

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Re: When MathCad Prime 6?

Maybe a glitch of the website - it misbehaves at times. Anyhow, I could read most of it in my e-mail. Here it is:

 

I'm considering Scilab/Octave/Sage (ie clones of Matlab) for their total scriptability. This is the area where Mathcad stopped its development. Suppose you make a generic Mathcad file with calculations of a standard product, but the product has few versions. I don't know, let's say a pressure vessel can have 2 or 3 nozzles. You make 3 chapters, each with all calculations for the nozzle, and simply hide the 3rd section when it's not needed. Then you realise that there are hundreds of these options, some calculations are only applicable when other conditions are on or off- it stops being manually controllable (and the TOC is a nightmare). You need automatic scripting to do all this logic- on the level higher than the document itself. Mathcad is not an option- you can't control the document this way.

 

Another example is naming variables. Following design codes (particularly when there's more than one code in a job), you always get few different variables with the same name. No problem: you add some prefix, postfix, ie you change the name a bit. Then a stubborn inspector starts winging: it's not what the code book says, your formula looks different. Sure, you can't use any aliases, or local variable names. Your P is the same P from page 1 to the end, and if you redefine it- it's lost.

 

There's more fundamental problems which can't be solved with Mathcad, at will never be with the current pace of development. These are not mathematical problems, just the way your concept is presented on paper. Definitely, not the highest priority for PTC.

 

I remember my first comments to Andrey after I saw an early version of his SMath- similar problems of presentability, clarity, etc. He took it seriously and addressed it ages ago...

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Re: When MathCad Prime 6?

I HOPE MATHCAD 15 WILL LIVE FOREVER... ( WIN11; WIN 12... ) WHO NEEDS PRIME ? 

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Re: When MathCad Prime 6?


@syaacoby wrote:

I HOPE MATHCAD 15 WILL LIVE FOREVER...


Tomorrow we will raise our glasses and offer this toast!

For Mathcad animation too!

Bokal.gif

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Re: When MathCad Prime 6?

Careful!!

You spill the good champagne!

Glass.gif

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Re: When MathCad Prime 6?

BB.png

 

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Re: When MathCad Prime 6?

It looks like the roadmap for Prime ends at 5.0

https://community.ptc.com/t5/PTC-Mathcad/PTC-Mathcad-Prime-Roadmap-2015-2016-update/td-p/446448

 

I think the naming convention for Prime might have changed also because now it is explicitly 5.0.0.0 indicating to me that they are only going to be doing the most minimal of chipping away at the software for a very long time! 

 

As evident by the lingering disparity in functionality between Mathcad 15 and Prime, PTC is not really trying to supersede any previous rendition of engineering calculation software's functionality but instead just make it look like they are, perhaps to investors, via incrementing version numbers and look. I fully expect a third Mathcad product to succeed both 15 and Prime, likely an online version, starting over at square one again, before Prime matches 15... 

 

Mark my words...

 

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Re: When MathCad Prime 6?

Many users of this forum suspected as much; massive lack of interest on PTC's side to deliver any substantial improvements beyond what prime 2 offered.
There was an entry by a member of the technical advisory team (can't recall who that was) who wrote that their advice (to keep Mathcad 15 functionality and improve GUI etc.) was mostly ignored. It seemed as if PTC was determined to skin MC15 since they thought that only a "Mathcad light" was needed or desired. On that they did deliver: it is rather light but not Mathcad.

For my work, pressure vessel calculations, thermal calculations and measurement data evaluation, mathcad Prime is useless. I'll stick to MC15 as long as possible.

 

Raiko

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Re: When MathCad Prime 6?

You're absolutely right - I think like you - I hope Mathcad 15 will live 10-15 years from now ... I have no alternative...



Re: When MathCad Prime 6?


@syaacoby wrote:
You're absolutely right - I think like you - I hope Mathcad 15 will live 10-15 years from now ... I have no alternative...




Hi Syaacoby,

As long as you don't need Mathcad (or prime) to drive your parameters in Creo, you have SMath (imo better than Mathcad 15). I hope one day someone adds a Creo interface to SMath and that will be the end of Mathcad. If I was the project manager in PTC, I would have already hired Andrey and incorporate SMath into Creo 🙂

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Re: When MathCad Prime 6?


@Konrad_A wrote:

. If I was the project manager in PTC, I would have already hired Andrey and incorporate SMath into Creo 🙂

please no!!

PTC has already ruined Mathcad, don't let them ruin SMath as well!

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Re: When MathCad Prime 6?

It's capitalism, the retardation process is inevitable. You can only manage it so it's more or less painful. Do you remember Derive?

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Re: When MathCad Prime 6?


@Konrad_A wrote:

Do you remember Derive?


I still use it from time to time 😉

So small, so fast, so powerful!

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Re: When MathCad Prime 6?


@Werner_E wrote:

@Konrad_A wrote:

Do you remember Derive?


I still use it from time to time 😉

So small, so fast, so powerful!


Exactly! I used it on my Toshiba T1000, no HD, from a 720kB diskette! But do you remember the story, how it ended? It got acquired by a rich and reputable corpo. Everyone hoped that it would mean a great future for the development of the software. Just don't be naive again, when what you are seeing is exactly the same story, just happening now...

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Re: When MathCad Prime 6?

At least there still was kind of considerable advancement/development even after the Software was bought by TI. But similar to Mathcad the goal sure was not further develop and market a PC software but rather to use the software or a variety of it in their pocket calculators (TI-92, TI-Voyage, TI-Inspire). I am not sure how much of the PC software has found its way in the firmware of those calculators but development of the PC software as a stand alone product stopped with version 6.03 (I think).

 

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Re: When MathCad Prime 6?


@Raiko wrote:

For my work, pressure vessel calculations, thermal calculations and measurement data evaluation, mathcad Prime is useless.

 


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Re: When MathCad Prime 6?

For those interested in the source of the claim I made: here it is.

 

https://community.ptc.com/t5/PTC-Mathcad/Why-do-PTC-continue-with-MathCad-Prime/m-p/573860/highlight...

 

Raiko

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Re: When MathCad Prime 6?

Hello,
does anyone have any news regards the next mathcad?
The product calendar is stationary at August '18 with Prime 5.

 

mathcad calendar.jpg


Any news? Any rumors? Any something...?

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Re: When MathCad Prime 6?

Why are you curious? Are you really still interested in Prime and do you honestly expect any serious improvements in newer versions?
In my opinion PTC has impressively demonstrated in the past 10+ years what they are capable of (or not capable of) doing. As a recent example just look at the chart component which was introduced in P5 as an answer to the various complaints about Primes hillbilly  plotting skills.

I am pretty sure that they will try to milk the cow to the last drop and so there will be a Prime 6. Maybe we get a third party 3D plot component (similar "professionally" integrated in Prime like the chart component), or maybe we get dilettantically implemented scripted components, ... who knows? I don't think that they will implement animations, though - sorry Val!

 
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Re: When MathCad Prime 6?

I'm afraid the news is rather depressing.  The next update (early fall probably) should include spell check, custom margins, zoom tools for charts and some tweaks to the calculation engine.  pull-down menus are delayed a year.  

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Re: When MathCad Prime 6?


@DJF wrote:

I'm afraid the news is rather depressing.  The next update (early fall probably) should include spell check, custom margins, zoom tools for charts and some tweaks to the calculation engine.  pull-down menus are delayed a year.  


Spell check and custom margins - wow! Sure a significant improvement to a software - if we were still in the 80's.

No, all that is not depressing at all as I am not interested in Prime in no way any more. The last 10+ years have absolutely convinced me that Prime will never be a software worth using for anything serious.

Just sad to see that PTC obviously succeeded in surpassing even my low set speculations in the negative sense (is this called souspassing?) Where did you read about those promised "improvements"?

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Re: When MathCad Prime 6?

I had a phone call with them.  The privileges of having a big PTC spend.

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Re: When MathCad Prime 6?

So what did they say on the phone?

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Re: When MathCad Prime 6?


@tslewis wrote:

So what did they say on the phone?


Probably what DJF had written here 😉

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Re: When MathCad Prime 6?

Very nice burn, Werner_E!  😄

 

It truly has been a dismal 10 years, hasn't it.  I feel bad for the guys writing the code, they must be about as frustrated as a mosquito in a mannequin factory!  We have calcs dating back 20 years at least; I'm thinking about recommending that we write a script to open them, save them to PDF and close again, so we at least have the foundations of a calc, if not the functionality.  And like many here, I'm on my knees that Mathcad 15 support remains until someone at PTC gets their head screwed on straight.

 

How you could take a package like Mathcad 15, that should be on every engineer's desktop, and foul it up this badly, will forever go down in the annals of how to ruin a good product.

 

Proud user of Mathcad since MS-DOS days.
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Re: When MathCad Prime 6?

The great secret of our century ... Why PTC abuses its customers with PRIME ??? GOD PLEASE SAVE MATHCD 15 FOR US WORKING FOREVER !!!

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Re: When MathCad Prime 6?

What better software for Free? SMath? It is a nice altrnative but it is severly lackign in many fundamental features. It is not able to produce a document to the qulaity of Mathcad V15 or Prime. There are other issues with it no having essential functions like matrix for instance. Its interoperbaility with excel and file reading capability is also very bad.Yes I know there are hobbyists out there extending it which is great but core features need otbe robust and not dependant on code that is not guaranteed to be maintained in future

 

In general, I much prefer using Prime to V15. Its a much nicer interface, and just more enjoyable to use.

 

However, I do agree the development and pace of Prime is woeful and I wish PTC would give it some respect. I am also lucky in that I dont have years and years of v15 sheets that i need to convert to Prime. However, there is a batch convertor to take V15 files to Prime

 

My 2c.

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Re: When MathCad Prime 6?


@DJF wrote:

I'm afraid the news is rather depressing.  The next update (early fall probably) should include spell check, custom margins, zoom tools for charts and some tweaks to the calculation engine.  pull-down menus are delayed a year.  


Hilarious! I don't really care how my employer pays for the licensing (since they don't care what I think about it), but if it was my money, I would have stopped paying for Mathcad ten years ago when it was already abandonware. You get better software for free now.

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