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08-09-2009
03:00 AM

08-09-2009
03:00 AM

typesetting equations

On 8/8/2009 11:10:57 PM, stuartafbruff wrote:

>What about it, Jean?

>

>Your contention is that *none* of the

>printed material you have seen uses

>italic font representation of

>mathematical variables. I have given

>counter-examples. The quality of such

>fonts is a different issue.

>

>Stuart

i'm going to stay out of this ... i'm going to stay out of this ...

oops - was that my outside voice?

- Guy

>What about it, Jean?

>

>Your contention is that *none* of the

>printed material you have seen uses

>italic font representation of

>mathematical variables. I have given

>counter-examples. The quality of such

>fonts is a different issue.

>

>Stuart

i'm going to stay out of this ... i'm going to stay out of this ...

oops - was that my outside voice?

- Guy

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08-09-2009
03:00 AM

08-09-2009
03:00 AM

typesetting equations

Surely Jean, it was all the units that were in

italics 😉

-------

When I read a text book I tend not to notice if the

bits are in italics. Usually it just looks 'right'.

The discussion may be confusing the aspect of

"looking right & consistent", with the common usage

of italics in prose for*something special* just here.

Looking at Unicode, lots of the 'special maths' text

now has its own code so doesn't need 'italics' (have

a look at all the variants of "h/H")

regards

Philip Oakley

italics 😉

-------

When I read a text book I tend not to notice if the

bits are in italics. Usually it just looks 'right'.

The discussion may be confusing the aspect of

"looking right & consistent", with the common usage

of italics in prose for

Looking at Unicode, lots of the 'special maths' text

now has its own code so doesn't need 'italics' (have

a look at all the variants of "h/H")

regards

Philip Oakley

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08-10-2009
03:00 AM

08-10-2009
03:00 AM

typesetting equations

As someone new to mathcad I thought I might find some sensible discussion here.

Try and find a math/physics text that doesn't have italicized variables. That would be a challenge. Obviously jmG has never seen LaTeX typesetting either.

So back to my follow up question: given that textbooks DO italicize by default, why isn't it the mathcad default like it is in Mathematica nad Maple (haven't used Matlab so can't comment on it but it used to have Maple symbolics engine so presumably it italicized as well). Being used to seeing italicized variables it looks awkward without it.

Mike

Try and find a math/physics text that doesn't have italicized variables. That would be a challenge. Obviously jmG has never seen LaTeX typesetting either.

So back to my follow up question: given that textbooks DO italicize by default, why isn't it the mathcad default like it is in Mathematica nad Maple (haven't used Matlab so can't comment on it but it used to have Maple symbolics engine so presumably it italicized as well). Being used to seeing italicized variables it looks awkward without it.

Mike

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08-10-2009
03:00 AM

08-10-2009
03:00 AM

typesetting equations

On 8/10/2009 12:15:10 PM, mikej1980 wrote:

== As someone new to mathcad I thought I might find some sensible discussion here.

You usually will, but some people are rather attached to Mathcad the way it is, and have a rather individual take on what standards the rest of the world (including the standards organizations) ought to comply with.

== Try and find a math/physics text that doesn't have italicized variables. That would be a challenge. Obviously jmG has never seen LaTeX typesetting either.

Don't go there. Please.

See the following thread for a justification of the image above

http://collab.mathsoft.com/read?61275,12e#61275

== So back to my follow up question: given that textbooks DO italicize by default, why isn't it the mathcad default like it is in Mathematica nad Maple (haven't used Matlab so can't comment on it but it used to have Maple symbolics engine so presumably it italicized as well). Being used to seeing italicized variables it looks awkward without it.

I don't know why, but possibly because of appearance in earlier versions of Mathcad. However, it is easy enough to make it your default. Open the file normal.xmcd (in the application's area in the folder Templates), change the math styles to be what you want and save the template file. Next time you create a new file, it will use the settings you defined instead of the installation default (it's what I do).

Stuart

== As someone new to mathcad I thought I might find some sensible discussion here.

You usually will, but some people are rather attached to Mathcad the way it is, and have a rather individual take on what standards the rest of the world (including the standards organizations) ought to comply with.

== Try and find a math/physics text that doesn't have italicized variables. That would be a challenge. Obviously jmG has never seen LaTeX typesetting either.

Don't go there. Please.

See the following thread for a justification of the image above

http://collab.mathsoft.com/read?61275,12e#61275

== So back to my follow up question: given that textbooks DO italicize by default, why isn't it the mathcad default like it is in Mathematica nad Maple (haven't used Matlab so can't comment on it but it used to have Maple symbolics engine so presumably it italicized as well). Being used to seeing italicized variables it looks awkward without it.

I don't know why, but possibly because of appearance in earlier versions of Mathcad. However, it is easy enough to make it your default. Open the file normal.xmcd (in the application's area in the folder Templates), change the math styles to be what you want and save the template file. Next time you create a new file, it will use the settings you defined instead of the installation default (it's what I do).

Stuart

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08-10-2009
03:00 AM

08-10-2009
03:00 AM

typesetting equations

On 8/10/2009 12:52:37 PM, stuartafbruff wrote:

>> but some people are rather attached to Mathcad the way it is,

Sorry, I meant Mathcad the way it**was** 😕

>> but some people are rather attached to Mathcad the way it is,

Sorry, I meant Mathcad the way it

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08-10-2009
03:00 AM

08-10-2009
03:00 AM

typesetting equations

>Obviously jmG has never seen LaTeX typesetting either.<<br> _____________________________

I have seen Mathcad as soon it had the equation editor [year ?] and Latex surely near it's birthday. We were quite in those things at the time I was "Consultant". For your "book style publishing", the best is asking PTC if they can register Latex special characters. The sensible discussion is that in Mathcad what you write is executable. And up until version 11, it does work with Windows fonts. If you like so much the Mathematica fonts, easy: their fonts were subcontracted to Publicon , which Publicon was free in the public domain. Mathcad does recognize some of their symbols, that I have used inadvertently at the beginning of the collab, with the feedback "can't read".

Don't know if Publicon is free, no matter: download a trial version of Mathematica, Windows will install all the fonts, that you will have for free. Same applies to fonts and special symbols from Autocad ... etc.

I'm not so much interested in the Latex nice characters, because they have no use in Mathcad. Latex could be simply glyphes and not anything like the common fonts: B�zier points mapped, that Windows smooths specially. Your "Latex Italic" has no equivalent in Windows, for one thing and for the other, mathematical notation turn confusing very soon (example attached, think about it in your next work sheet).

jmG

I have seen Mathcad as soon it had the equation editor [year ?] and Latex surely near it's birthday. We were quite in those things at the time I was "Consultant". For your "book style publishing", the best is asking PTC if they can register Latex special characters. The sensible discussion is that in Mathcad what you write is executable. And up until version 11, it does work with Windows fonts. If you like so much the Mathematica fonts, easy: their fonts were subcontracted to Publicon , which Publicon was free in the public domain. Mathcad does recognize some of their symbols, that I have used inadvertently at the beginning of the collab, with the feedback "can't read".

Don't know if Publicon is free, no matter: download a trial version of Mathematica, Windows will install all the fonts, that you will have for free. Same applies to fonts and special symbols from Autocad ... etc.

I'm not so much interested in the Latex nice characters, because they have no use in Mathcad. Latex could be simply glyphes and not anything like the common fonts: B�zier points mapped, that Windows smooths specially. Your "Latex Italic" has no equivalent in Windows, for one thing and for the other, mathematical notation turn confusing very soon (example attached, think about it in your next work sheet).

jmG

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08-10-2009
03:00 AM

08-10-2009
03:00 AM

typesetting equations

"Why" is wholly different question. Maple and Mathematica have a mostly different audience and application than Mathcad. The former are both intended specifically for those that probably would publish their results.

Mathcad was always intended, I think, to be an engineering scratchpad, with symbolic capability tacked on.

Even with the new owners, the notion of documentation and provenance is mostly at the sheet level, rather than publication, per se. And certainly, PTC is not a place where mathematical publishing is a familiar millieu.

However, have you tried to set the variables style to italic Times Roman at say, 14 pts? Seems to me that what's specified in Section 10 of NIST SP-811 is implementable in Mathcad, currently.

TTFN,

Eden

Mathcad was always intended, I think, to be an engineering scratchpad, with symbolic capability tacked on.

Even with the new owners, the notion of documentation and provenance is mostly at the sheet level, rather than publication, per se. And certainly, PTC is not a place where mathematical publishing is a familiar millieu.

However, have you tried to set the variables style to italic Times Roman at say, 14 pts? Seems to me that what's specified in Section 10 of NIST SP-811 is implementable in Mathcad, currently.

TTFN,

Eden

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08-10-2009
03:00 AM

08-10-2009
03:00 AM

typesetting equations

The Alt-o,E method presented earlier is OK, and the method of editing Normal.xmct is better, IMO, although I simply made up a template that I load when I want a different look (I use several). But one of my difficulties with this subject is that Mathcad treats both variable names AND units as the same thing: variables. So even if I change the default, I still get either both non-italic or both italic, and if I want them to be separate (and I do, for all the reasons mentioned above), there is the awkwardness of changing every variable as I enter it. I made my new variable type to be aVariable, so that Alt-o,e,a gets me to a new variable type the fastest. There is not even a global search and replace for this action that I know of.

Rich

http://www.downeastengineering.com/

Rich

http://www.downeastengineering.com/

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08-10-2009
03:00 AM

08-10-2009
03:00 AM

typesetting equations

>>I have seen Mathcad as soon it had the equation editor [year ?] and Latex surely near it's birthday. We were quite in those things at the time I was "Consultant". For your "book style publishing", the best is asking PTC if they can register Latex special characters. The sensible discussion is that in Mathcad what you write is executable. And up until version 11, it does work with Windows fonts. If you like so much the Mathematica fonts, easy: their fonts were subcontracted to Publicon , which Publicon was free in the public domain. Mathcad does recognize some of their symbols, that I have used inadvertently at the beginning of the collab, with the feedback "can't read".

Don't know if Publicon is free, no matter: download a trial version of Mathematica, Windows will install all the fonts, that you will have for free. Same applies to fonts and special symbols from Autocad ... etc.

I'm not so much interested in the Latex nice characters, because they have no use in Mathcad. Latex could be simply glyphes and not anything like the common fonts: B�zier points mapped, that Windows smooths specially. Your "Latex Italic" has no equivalent in Windows, for one thing and for the other, mathematical notation turn confusing very soon (example attached, think about it in your next work sheet).

Just for clarity I wasn't asking about special fonts or glyphs and cited LaTeX only as yet another example of italicized variables. Equation editor on Word would be yet another.

Anyway thanks to all who responded.

Don't know if Publicon is free, no matter: download a trial version of Mathematica, Windows will install all the fonts, that you will have for free. Same applies to fonts and special symbols from Autocad ... etc.

I'm not so much interested in the Latex nice characters, because they have no use in Mathcad. Latex could be simply glyphes and not anything like the common fonts: B�zier points mapped, that Windows smooths specially. Your "Latex Italic" has no equivalent in Windows, for one thing and for the other, mathematical notation turn confusing very soon (example attached, think about it in your next work sheet).

Just for clarity I wasn't asking about special fonts or glyphs and cited LaTeX only as yet another example of italicized variables. Equation editor on Word would be yet another.

Anyway thanks to all who responded.

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08-10-2009
03:00 AM

08-10-2009
03:00 AM

typesetting equations

Ok, with some degree of difficulty:

Mathcad:

SP811:

TTFN,

Eden

Mathcad:

SP811:

TTFN,

Eden