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Copy Geom Skeletons

dbowles
4-Participant

Copy Geom Skeletons



Looking for the Proe/Cons of copy geom features in skeletons.

Cons I have experienced:
My experience of routing cables on copy geometry, even independent has not
seemed worth the drawbacks.
Not able to duplicate objects, components replaced in asm's do not update.
Even the geom independent function
keeps the global ref.

Pros
very quick way to route cables
Chance of a duplicate objects is probably slim

The skeletons I create are always independent surfaces etc. years of
surfacing experience, no big deal to thrown in surfs.

Looking for opinions, generally what are the majority using out there

Douglas K. Bowles
Advanced Systems Harn/Des
520-665-7082 Office
520-490-9395 Cell
-


PRIVACY ACT NOTICE: This communication may contain privileged or other
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12 REPLIES 12

Most companies use datum points from coordinate system..to avoid a dependency. I personally..use skeletons to get my bearings, and then delete them after creating points. The one thing you do not want to do..is build a relationship to a top level model.


-Dustin



In Reply to Dustin Crawford:



Most companies use datum points from coordinate system..to avoid a dependency. I personally..use skeletons to get my bearings, and then delete them after creating points. The one thing you do not want to do..is build a relationship to a top level model.


-Dustin




I respectfully have to disagree with Dustin on this point. The majority of companies I've ever worked with have simply routed right on top of their copy geometry (or worse on the assembly itself). Some have used the "points" method but in my experience, this isn't common.


Either way, both of those techniques are terrifyingly bad. As Douglas pointed out, copy geometry has limitations. Although some of these limitations can be mitigated, routing directly on the Copy Geom is still a bad idea. As for the points method, I find it stunning that people would resort to manipulating hoardes of datum points to control their harnesses. At Planet PTC 2012, I presented a technique I've used for at least 10 years to control harnesses easily without datum points. Even after all the progress we've made with the cabling package, the same techniques still hold value.


I agree you want to avoid building a relationship at the top level assembly... but otherwise I believe there are better ways to route a harness, control it, and modify it without jumping through hoops to do it.


Regards,


-Brian

slam
1-Newbie
(To:dbowles)

Brian,

Can you share your technique on how to route harness that you've presented at Planet PTC 2012?

Sincerely,

Sun C. Lam
Electrical Engineering Integration
[cid:image001.jpg@01CD65AD.44A983C0]
(858) 312-3749
sun.lam@uav.com<">mailto:john.harper@uav.com>

I use a dummy part that allows me to route intersections in space. It
looks like this..

If you cant see the image it is simply a bunch of datum curves heading off
in 6 directions with datum axis on them as well as some datum curves in
45° increments for DIR input if you need them.

I package them in the assy at each junction, move them around freely, and
fix them at a later date.
You can make it flexible too for changing sizes of bundles.

MERCURY
MerCruiser
Pete Pickett II
Design Engineer III Office: 405.332.2032
dbowles
4-Participant
(To:dbowles)


Just checking to see others current methods.
I use re-created simplified surfaces in a skeleton and sometimes datum
planes, or convert to offset (default csys).
Years of surfacing experience have made it an easy option for me to
re-create most any surface
Seems to be best to have users use their own perferred methods in most
applications.

I always use reference viewer to make sure no global ref's exist



Douglas K. Bowles
Advanced Systems Harn/Des
520-545-6456 Office
520-490-9395 Cell
-


PRIVACY ACT NOTICE: This communication may contain privileged or other
Official information. If you are not the intended recipient or believe
that you have received this communication in error, please reply to the
sender indicating that fact and delete the copy you received. It is a
violation of Federal Law to print, copy, retransmit, disseminate, or
otherwise use this information without prior authorization.


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"Seems to be best to have users use their own perferred methods in most
applications."

This sure sounds like a great company standard..

Scott






Hi Sun & Scott...

I'll be happy to share my technique. Let me pull together some documentation and I'll respond to the group.

Thanks!
-Brian

Brian K. Martin
Sr. Mechanical/Application Engineer
SGT, Inc. under contract to
NASA Goddard Space Flight Center

301.286.0059 (NASA Office)
443.421.2532 (Cell)
-
dbowles
4-Participant
(To:dbowles)

Referring to routing methods only, Some route on dtm planes, skeletons etc.
Standards are in the design

Douglas K. Bowles
Advanced Systems Harn/Des
520-545-6456 Office
520-490-9395 Cell
-


PRIVACY ACT NOTICE: This communication may contain privileged or other
Official information. If you are not the intended recipient or believe
that you have received this communication in error, please reply to the
sender indicating that fact and delete the copy you received. It is a
violation of Federal Law to print, copy, retransmit, disseminate, or
otherwise use this information without prior authorization.


|------------>
| From: |
|------------>
slam
1-Newbie
(To:dbowles)

Hi All,
Does anyone has comparison matrix between RSD 8.0/9.0 and Creo Schematics 1.0/2.0?
Thanks,
Sun

WOW.. that's a huge request. We recently went from RSD 8 to Creo 1 and
love it. The whole UI is new and PTC put so many user requested
enhancements in it. I know that teaching someone CREO 1 is much easier
then teaching them RSD 9.

I would install it and play with it. Creo 2 will be even nicer with
some of the new functions they are adding. If you want the real goods,
you need to join the Routed system technical committee (via the ptcuser
site) and it will allow you to see Alpha and Betas of new software and
give PTC your input one new functions before the software goes public.




MERCURY
MerCruiser
Pete Pickett II
Design Engineer III Office: 405.332.2032

Hi Scott and Sun (and everyone else)...

I went off to grab some documents and videos and put them together for this reply. Then, work rained down on me from out of the blue. I didn't want to leave you hanging but I also didn't have a chance to put together the kind of response I wanted to.

So I'll have to give you a quick version...

* Make datums in your harness assembly.

* Manage your references to limit or eliminate external references

* SKETCH YOUR CABLE PATHWAYS USING REGULAR CREO (or Pro/E) SKETCHES

* Route your network using the vertices of the sketches as references.

* Use a logical reference file and autoroute! Even if you don't have Creo Schematics it's super easy to generate a neutral wire file from Excel or other sources

I am meticulous about creating my networks. If you make multiple short segments, you can run harnesses perfectly straight. None of that annoying spline behavior. I don't know how other companies allow their harnesses to be run. But in 20 years of experience, I never worked for a customer who just let the harness flop around like a big spline. Every place I've ever been including my current employer expects a harness to be dressed very clean, very neat, and (if at all possible) very straight. I can mimic this perfectly using this technique.

Note, I do not drop a bunch of datum points on my sketches. I simply use the vertices of the sketch itself. I frequently make small (2 point) network segments and link them together. I need to demonstrate this in a video. It's an easy system but it's much easier demonstrated in a video rather than trying to explain it in words.

WHY bother with sketches? Simple. If you keep the actual cabling commands to a bare minimum, anyone can do harness work. Most people are afraid of it. I base my techniques on basic Creo structures like datums and sketched curves... precisely because everyone understands them. Anyone can modify a sketch quickly and easily... and the harness updates immediately. If I've dropped 200 points using a coordinate system, or a set of datum points hovering in x,y, and z coordinates in space, those things have to be painstakingly moved by hand to alter the shape of my harness. Plus, the harness often assumes the "spline" behavior even if I set the cabling environment to "straight".With sketches, I can make some fairly radical changes far faster.

By combining this technique with autorouting, anyone can use Creo Cabling. I don't use sketches because I am unaware of the other ways to route a network or a wire... or because I am an novice. I use them because after digging through every possible nuance of the cabling package, it's still the fastest, most robust way I've found to create a harness. The trick is to keep users out of the cabling package until they absolutely have to use it. Then, when they DO need it, to keep the special cabling commands to a minimum. I've created a cabling cheat sheet (Wildfire 5 version) to help people practice the techniques I use. It's meant to be printed out double-sided (and maybe laminated). For people who don't often use cabling, they tend to forget the various commands and steps to creating a harness. This was meant to give them a reminder.

Sorry for the long reply. I wanted to write something much more comprehensive but I hope this can suffice for now. The cheat sheet is attached. Also... I've provided a link to the new Piping, Cabling & Schematics<">http://communities.ptc.com/community/creo/piping-cabling-schematics> section of Planet PTC Community. This area is specifically to share information, post questions, and discuss routed systems topics. My personal BLOG<">http://communities.ptc.com/blogs/the_zone> which deals primarily with all Creo routed systems modules is there as well. My presentation from Planet PTC 2012 is there but without the videos to accompany the presentation which demonstrate the actual routing techniques, it's not as useful as I'd like. I'm working on re-editing the videos. I'll post them as soon as possible.

Thanks and best regards,
-Brian

Brian K. Martin
Sr. Mechanical/Application Engineer
SGT, Inc. under contract to
NASA Goddard Space Flight Center

301.286.0059 (NASA Office)
443.421.2532 (Cell)
-
dbowles
4-Participant
(To:dbowles)

Creo now has the capability to break all global references.
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