CREO 2.0 - M090 not on download site yet?????

[BuddyHudson]

To all,

Anyone seen the release that is due out today M090? I have checked the download site at various times since this morning and no beuno!

Buddy

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[Inoram]

Erik,

Have you seen issues with ordinate dimensions going purple when you modify a part and I do not mean changing the reference (0) for the ordinate dimensions, just ANY feature of the part and some or all of my dimensions are losing reference for some reason.

[pnos]

Hi, I wanted to ask whether they M090 supports OIT for NVidia cards

[Inoram]

It looks like it.

[pnos]

Yes, thanks, I've tested works beautifully fluent in transparent assemblies, but after a while Creo throws message..

[Inoram]

What version video driver are you running?

[pnos]

I have version 331.82 but do not have quadro card I geforce 460gtx

[TomD.inPDX]

I do believe this is very dependent on the graphics card's capabilities.

I have the Quadro 3000M driver V296.79 (Dell version).

I'd like to know if I'm wrong about this.

[egifford]

I'm running a Dell T3600 with a Nvidia Quadro 600 and driver 331.82. I've only been tinkering with it and I don't see a huge difference in the "look" between the two settings. However watching the CPU & GPU meter, it clearly utilizes the GPU more when set to "order independent" rather than "blended". Working with one assembly model with several components set to varying degrees of transparency, the model would spin cleanly with either. With blended, the CPU would be around 30% (15% of that or so is background processes present when not spinning) and the GPU 40%-42%. Switching the setting to order independent left the CPU utilization about the same, but pegged the GPU to 99% every time. I think that would support what Antonius mentioned that it is very dependent on the card. Here is a link to a PTC doc mentioning the support for this setting with Nvidia cards. I take the wording it as it's meant to use the GPU more.

http://creo.ptc.com/2013/08/08/ptc-creo-2-0-order-independent-transparency-support-for-nvidia-gpus/

Erik

[Inoram]

ok, you guys convinced me, hehe.. I just turned this on and immediately the part selection while in shaded mode is a TON better looking. So, I will play with this some more.

[egifford]

That is a nice improvement, it eliminates the sort of "screen door" effect on graphics when selecting components in shaded mode.

[TomD.inPDX]

The screen door effect is the "Stippled" option. "Blended" has always been a smooth look, but it is not "accurate" on many occasions. However, the floor reflection when using "shaded with reflections" would be stippled.

[pnos]

Today published a new driver and try

[TomD.inPDX]

I have updated to NVidia drivers from their site in the past and they all failed miserably in Creo 2.0. Only the Dell issued drivers have worked for me. I have received only 1 update in 2 years. Although welcome, it has not enabled the new transparency mode in M040. In fact, I opened it up today, and the option is not there to choose either. Maybe M090 will do something for me, but for now, I don't have the option.

[egifford]

Antonius makes a good point regarding which driver to use. We've had issues in the past where the Dell issued driver might have certain issues, but the latest Nvidia driver had more or worse issues and we'd have to revert. Watch the PTC platform support pages for what driver version is officially supported for your particular hardware setup. In some cases you're better off getting the driver from your hardware vendor's support page than the Graphics card developer's web page.

I think the addition of independent mode is only there for Nvidia cards in newer M-codes. PTC stated for Nvidia cards it wouldn't be introduced until the "second half of 2013".

Yeah, stippled had the "Screen door" effect all the time whereas blended is smooth. But when selecting objects in shaded mode with the blended setting, it still sort reverts to a semi screen door effect unlike the independent mode setting.

Graphics stuff aside (I don't see this option and make or break either way), if anyone sees any major flaws in M090, please post. I'm planning to go live on it the first week of February with 50+ users.

Here are a couple of screen shots showing the graphics difference between blended and independent when selecting in shaded mode.

shaded mode select with "blended" setting

shaded mode select with "independent" option

[Inoram]

M080 did not have the OIT option, I checked it when Pepa asked about it.

As far as Dell drivers, that's odd, as I am guessing Dell just repackages the driver with the Dell logo on it. And (at least newer hardware) as far as I know Dell just buys the hardware from Nvidia and slaps it in the computer. So I would think they have no reason to customize the driver? But maybe they do, they are Dell, they don't build them for performance so who knows, maybe they purposely underclock them or software lock the clock or something? I have no idea.

[egifford]

I think it's more that sometimes the only place you can easily find the older and "blessed" version of the driver is on workstation manufacturer's web page - in our case that's Dell. PTC even has a note to that effect at the top of the hardware support doc off the platform support section of their web page.

[TomD.inPDX]

Dell has some very specific graphics interface features that are not visible on the face of things. They are far behind the current driver version from NVidia so there is definitely something specific about Dell workstations. The noticeable difference is in the text interfaces when scrolling. You get ghosting and frozen bits. You also get "blackouts" on a lot of screens. NVidia drivers direct from NVidia are simply not usable on my Dell Precision laptop. And these limitations are only in Creo. No other software on my system seems to have any related issues.

Erik, I see that the highlight is stippled in the non OIT display. I think this is normal. How is the floor reflection using the OIT? Is it truly transparent or is it stippled? To clarify, if the real object has transparency assigned, the reflection becomes stippled. But if the object is solid, then the reflection is "solid subdued".

[Inoram]

This is what I thought.

http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/laptop/f/3519/t/19384128.aspx

Of course that doesn't mean every driver works 100%.

What do you mean by floor reflection?

[TomD.inPDX]

I must not have a non-NVS enabled NVidia card because I can promise you that my Dell driver works and the NVidia driver does not. Seriously, someone is posting some marketing hype that is simply not the case on my Dell Precision M6600 with the Quadro M3000. The driver that Dell released went from V276.xx to V296.xx while the NVidia's driver is V332.xx. Also, the Dell discussion is from 2011. And Creo really is an independent application from -most- other applications which probably work fine as described. I have always known just how touchy Pro|E is about video drivers. The wrong driver or hardware can still cause serious hard crashes of the software.

This is the mode where blended becomes stippled in the reflection:

Part is about 40% transparent set to Blended.

[Inoram]

There is also this;

[Inoram]

I see the same reflection with OIT mode and playing with transparency (on the model I was using) it gets better or worse depending on where you are exactly. The screenshot is a little worse than it looks in Creo.

[TomD.inPDX]

Yep, that is what mine does too. I guess no improvement on that front.

[BillChapman]

I am running M090, with a Nvidia FX3800 (driver 320.00) and I do not see the Order Independant option. Is there something else that needs to be set?

[pnos]

Your card does not support DX11

[Inoram]

And openGL 3.0, I think the OIT is a openGL 4.0 function. I am assuming most people run openGL and not DX in Creo?

[egifford]

Also be cautious of using the setting if available. I was working along, closed my models and went to switch workspaces when the "your hardware configuration does not meet minimum specifications...." error Pepa had mentioned popped up and brought me to this page at Nvidia. Seems like a setting to experiment with for now, but I wouldn't implement it across the board without fully testing graphics card and driver combinations under a number of workload scenarios in Creo 2 Parametric.

[pnos]

I have the same problem I wrote about a few post above there is also attached jpg

[jkent]

I would not implement it just yet. We are getting this error message on machines with Nvidia cards. After you dismiss this dialog box Creo crashes. Guess we will have to wait for M100.

[pnos]

It is exactly what it u me. I think that PTC have really some tuning.I had to switch back to the blend could be stim work still crashes. But it's a shame blend is slow to rotate and zoom

[BuddyHudson]

I am using NVIDIA card with no issues on M090...

Buddy Hudson