HP Notebook

[mark_keevy]

Good-Day Pro/Guru's

I am interested in buying a Laptop for Home...

HP Pavilion dv7-1230ez Intel Core2 Duo Processor P7450 (2.13GHz)
17" WXGA+ High Definition Bright View Widescreen
3072MB DDRII 667MHz (2048MB + 1024MB)
320GB SATA 5400rpm
NVIDIA GeForce 9200M GS 512MB
Genuine Windows VistaR Home Premium 1.1.0

Will it be possible to run WF2/3/4 with the specs listed above.?

I know it is not a workstation but it is all I can afford.

Regards

Mark

"I wish I was half the man my dog thought I was"

[ptc-726111]

Mark,



Is that NVidia video card a gaming card? If so, it would be better to get a
NVidia Quadro video card that is suited for 3-D CAD. Unless you are doing
rendering, it may not be as much a problem with Pro-E, but I know of several
SW users that have had problems using gaming video cards with Real View
graphics in SW.



Secondly, I would not get the Home Vista, but request the Business Vista
(x64). I use Win XP Pro x64 (64-bit), and the home version of Win XP does
not have IIS (Internet information services) which is required for some PDM
systems, and other software.



At minimum, you should have 4GB RAM and if possible, request a hard drive
with faster rpm. You can probably run Pro-E on this configuration for small
assemblies, and part that do not require a lot of surfacing, but I am only
guessing.



Regards,



Chris Thompson

[dgschaefer]

Will it run Pro|E? Probably. Will you like how it performs? Maybe
not. As Chris said, the GeForce cards are for gaming. You may have
issues with having many windows open, but it should be adequate with
only a couple. Vista is a memory hog, 3GB is not much for running Vista
and Pro|E. That may limit the model sizes you can work with.

A couple of things I've gleaned from this list over the years (I'm not a
hardware expert, so correct me if I'm wrong):

Video card type has a big impact on Pro|E performance, but video card
memory does not. In fact, aside from rendering I don't think Pro|E
makes use of the video memory.
L2 cache seems to make a bigger impact on Pro|E performance than
processor speed.
You'll want a bunch of memory. Memory is cheap. you may want to get
the most memory you can in a single chip so that you can add more later
without throwing the old away.

So, try to spend your money on those areas, CAD video card (Quadro), L2
Cache and memory, first. You'll find that the Quadro CAD cards aren't
available in most notebooks, though, you may have to move to a
'workstation' class notebook.

Doug Schaefer

[mark_keevy]

Thanks for all the reply's so far. (will post summary)

I think I should add that I will be running Pro/NC. (hmmm should have
mentioned it earlier)

I wouldn't open big assemblies often, mostly manufacturing files. (Plastic
Injection Moulding)

I seem to feel a force pulling me towards saving more money and going
workstation.

Problem is Entry-level Workstations are about 50-60% more expensive where I
live.

Regards,

Mark

  ----------

[JOES]

When working at home I run Pro & all the machines I used over the years have
been nvidia gaming cards. Currently I have a GX260 card, but I was running
it just before Xmas with a 7800GS agp card. No problems at all, although I
only work with small assemblies. I am not convinced that a Quatro is
required for large assemblies & would love to test that theory out but I
don't have any large assemblies.

64bit would be better but make sure your able to use your VPN on a 64bit OS
unless you have another way of licensing Pro at home. At this time my
employer's VPN set-up will not work on 64 bit OS.
That notebook should run Pro OK, just OK...

Regards,
Joe S.


On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 9:45 AM, Mark Keevy (PTM) <mark@ptm.co.za> wrote:

> Thanks for all the reply's so far… (will post summary)
>
>
>
> I think I should add that I will be running Pro/NC… (hmmm should have
> mentioned it earlier)
>
>
>
> I wouldn't open big assemblies often, mostly manufacturing files. (Plastic
> Injection Moulding)
>
>
>
> I seem to feel a force pulling me towards saving more money and going
> workstation…
>
>
>
> Problem is Entry-level Workstations are about 50-60% more expensive where I
> live.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>

[ptc-168913]

Just to give some perspective, I recently had to use a tablet PC 🙂 laptop
from work to run Pro/E (since my home PC was down) with the following specs:
*2.0 Ghz Centrino Duo
*2 Gb RAM
*Intel integrated graphics (not sure which model without booting it) 🙂

Not a workstation laptop but I had no choice! Anyway, it did a decent job
with a small/medium size assembly and even performed some renders pretty
well.

Obviously I would never want to use this laptop daily but in a pinch it is
okay. I think the model you are looking at is much better than above, only
thing is get as much RAM as possible (probably 4 Gb) and follow Chris'
suggestion to get Vista Business x64 (if available). The only reason the
model you spec'd out is 3 Gb is because it is running a 32-bit OS.

I agree with Joe that a nice Nvidia gaming card should be okay for your use
(although I too haven't tested out what most would consider a large
assembly!).

Hope that helps!

--
Ryan

[JonathanHodgson]

Is it actually critical to have that much memory?

My workstation has ?4 GB (3.25 reported by Windows). With Pro/E and a
few other apps running, it reported 939 MB used a few minutes ago.

I've just opened what I'd consider a large assembly (motorsport gearbox,
including very complex cast casings) and the memory usage has ramped to
1.82 GB. The assembly is big enough that this 2.6 Ghz Opteron / Quadro
FX combination can only spin it at 3-4 frames per second.

I don't think I've ever seen more than 2 GB allocated, so what's the
advantage in having more than 3? Of course, we're on XP here; Vista
might eat a lot more memory before you start...

Regards,
Jonathan

[BenLoosli]

A 32bit application can only address 2GB of memory due to limitations in the
OS and compilers from Microsoft.

You do need additional memory for the OS itself and device drivers and all.

When we have 4GB of memory, we put a switch on the boot line to allocate
1.1GB of memory to the OS and drivers.

Without the USERVA switch, Pro/E will crash when the process reaches
1-6-1.8GB of memory.

With the switch, the values become 1.9-2.1GB.



With only 3GB of physical memory, you don't have the 2GB left after the OS
to take full advantage of the memory.



Vista makes no difference, it is still a 32bit OS. Actually Vista may be
worse as it takes more memory than XP.



The only solution to the memory issue is a 64bit OS.



Ben

[davehaigh]

Just a little clarification on the 3gb switch for 32 bit windows. The switch doesn't care how much physical memory you have in your system. I just allows an application to address more memory. If there is not enough physical memory, it will use swap space on the disk. which of course will be very slow.

If possible get a downgrade to XP64 rather than Vista 64. It doesn't use up as much memory for the operating system. If you do get Vista, turn off the Areo(sp?) interface. It's a hog.

As for a Quatro vs a gamer card, you can't open as many windows in Pro/E with the gamer card, and you may have some screen weirdness. For example menus not repainting, and wierd graphics if you have multiple windows open.

Dave Haigh

[BobSchwerdlin]

I have used PC's with nVidia gamer cards for years without any problems.

[mark_keevy]

Good-Day All,

I may have the option for a Demo Note book at a good price.
I have listed the specs below
I wonder if anyone has this same notebook (Any problems, performance,etc.)
I am using WF2 with EMX4.1
I also realise it is not top-end.
I am nervous to purchase as there is no listing of it under WF2 Platform
support,
But I suppose WF2 is no longer supported anyway

Part#FU455EA
HP Elite book 8530p
Intel Core 2 Duo P8600 2.40 GHz
ATI Mobitilty Radeon HD 3650 with 256 MB of dedicated video memory
250 GB 5400rpm
2048MB DDR2 800MHz 1DIMM
Intel Centrino with vPro AMT module
Windows Vista Business 32 + XP Pro,Windows XP Drivers

Regards,

Mark Keevy

[willy.chung.pd]

Hi Mark,

I've heard unconfirmed rumors (i.e., read on the internet somewhere, but don't remember where) that gaming cards are NOT good CAD cards. They utilize different "engines" where in CAD we're looking at OpenGL performance. So in the ATI world, I believe Radeon is a gaming class, so you'd want to look for FireGL. If you goto HP or IBM, you'll see that their CAD workstations utilize ATI FireGL (or nVidia Quadro FX).

If you find the particular reference, please do post for us to share.

Good luck,

Willy Chung
SurfaceInk Corporation - Boston
www.surfaceink.com

In Reply to Mark Keevy:

Good-Day All,

I may have the option for a Demo Note book at a good price.
I have listed the specs below
I wonder if anyone has this same notebook (Any problems, performance,etc.)
I am using WF2 with EMX4.1
I also realise it is not top-end.
I am nervous to purchase as there is no listing of it under WF2 Platform
support,
But I suppose WF2 is no longer supported anyway

Part#FU455EA
HP Elite book 8530p
Intel Core 2 Duo P8600 2.40 GHz
ATI Mobitilty Radeon HD 3650 with 256 MB of dedicated video memory
250 GB 5400rpm
2048MB DDR2 800MHz 1DIMM
Intel Centrino with vPro AMT module
Windows Vista Business 32 + XP Pro,Windows XP Drivers

Regards,

Mark Keevy

[ehill]

I benchmarked my home PC against my work PC a few years back using the
OCUS tool - mid-level gaming card vs. higher-end CAD card. The 6600GT
gaming card held its own just fine on the graphics end of the
benchmarks, and as a matter of fact performed much better than most
Quadro cards. I'm not sure if the OCUS benchmark tackles large assembly
graphics performance, or multiple windows issues, though.



I recommend you evaluate what type of work you will be doing, and if
it's appropriate then you can use a gaming card and be just fine.



Best Regards,

[robert.trujillo]

There is a Technical Brief put out by NVIDIA that compares features and
benefits of Quadro vs GeForce that I have found very helpful.



Check out "Tech Briefs" at this link

[rreifsnyder]

Often a game card can work faster than a CAD card if you're only opening
1 or 2 windows at a time. After that, they usually grind down. Also, you
may have unexpected crashes more often, but if you're doing limited work
on a budget, you may be able to get away with the game card.



Rob Reifsnyder

Mechanical Design Engineer/ Pro/E Librarian

L

Maritime Systems & Sensors (MS2)

497 Electronics Parkway

Liverpool, NY 13088

EP5-Quad2, Cube 281