Skeleton model from prt model

[pdiletti]

Hi,

sometimes I need to convert a regular "prt model" in a Skeleton type model.

Just not to lose all geometries and links I use this procedure (CREO2 ) :

1 - Open assembly which contains the regular part that should be used as a skeleton part (name "PART2SKEL.PRT") .

2 - In assembly Sel. Model / Create and I define a new skeleton type model ( named "TEMP_SKEL.PRT") using the option 'copy from existing' and choosing "PART2SKEL.PRT" as reference part in order to have all geometries already done.

3 - I save the single part "TEMP_SKEL.PRT" to disk.

4 - I close the assembly without saving and I erase everything from memory.

5 - On the disk I rename the "TEMP_SKEL.PRT" to "PART2SKEL.PRT".

6 - Open again the the assembly. The original part is replaced by the new skeleton art.

7 - In the model tree I can see the original part as skeleton with specific correct icon for skeleton (transparent).

If necessary I can move the part on top of model tree.

It works !

Now the question :

In Windchill (10.1) if I perform a CHECK-IN operation with Auto Associate option , this skeleton model coming from regular part is not considered as WT part.

So, it's right !!

BUT

In the Assembly if I select Tool/BOM I still see the skeleton part even if I excluded that type of model.

In the drawing , in the BOM table, I still see the skeleton part in the list and it's not possible to remove the part with automatic filter excluding "skeleton type" models.

Anyone could help me to understand ?

Many Thanks

Pier

[VladimirPalffy · Accepted solution]

Hi,

I think that is the problem because you create your skeleton model as "fake model"

Correct steps:

• Open existing asm

• Remove all dependencies from Default Datum features

• Select first model > RMB > Replace >> By Copy > Copy as Skeleton

System will change the model to Skeleton model:

Regards,

Vladimir

[dgschaefer]

That's a fantastic find.  I discovered that the datum planes need not be deleted, the component just has to be ahead of them in the model tree.  This requires them to be either default assembled or packaged.

If the component isn't first in the tree, the "Copy as Skeleton" option is not present.

[VladimirPalffy]

Thanks Doug for your additional comments

Regards,

Vladimir

[pdiletti-2]

Thank you so much !

The Replace option is very nice and solves the problem regarding the filter used in BOM table on drawing.

Of course, the only negative point is that , just because a new part, I have to "re-define" all "Copy geometry" features

on components .

Thanks !

Pier

[VladimirPalffy]

Hi Pier, You are welcome - I am glad that Replace option is working

Regards,

Vladimir

[dgschaefer]

I wondered how Creo would handle the children. Are you saying that all the parts in the assy that referred to the old non-skeleton model still refer to the old non-skeleton model and each one has to be redefined? 

[VladimirPalffy]

It is not necessary to redefine constraints or referencies - system will change only object character (from standard model to Skeleton model). I use this technique a lot

I like it.

Regards,

Vladimir

[dgschaefer]

What about parts that are not in this assy?  For exaple, on a recent project we used the master model technique rather than a skeleton because the client at the time did not have AAX.  We used the same master model for two products in the same family, so two top level assys using the same master model.  Probably 80% of the components were shared, but the ramaining 20% were similar, but different.  If I open both and then change that model to a skeleton in one, will the other update accordingly?  I assume that if the second is not in session, there will be problems, but I would hope if all is in memory it would just work.

I've got some free time, maybe I'll play with it.

[pdiletti-2]

Thank you Vladimir

but I still have problem regarding references.

If I change the std part with a copy as skeleton, the Copy Geometry features on the assembly parts refer to old part as std part and not as a skeleton.

Bye

Pier

[dgschaefer]

I found the same to be true.  The assy references all still work, but the copy geoms (or merge features in my case) all still refer to the old model.

[vzak]

Pier,

Few comments.

First, please ever avoid renaming Creo models on the disk. There is a 99% chance that this will result in data corruptions, even if you do not see this immediately (hence most severe). Especially since you use external references. Simply do not do this.

Second, Replace / As Skeleton is a correct proposal for your purposes. This will have few limitations, so keeping them in mind you can proceed I guess :

- component to be Replaced by Skeleton needs to be First Component, usually placed by Default. If you use multiple skeletons option you can have more than two, but one after another.

- all "external references will be mapped to a new Copy (which is of skeleton type). Even those children (like Doug was concerned) that are currently not present in session (excluded or suppressed) - will all update to a new Copy when they get Included / Resumed.

- there are limitations on so called "direct references" : Relations, Data Sharing features of "external" type (External Copygeom / External Shrinkwrap). These reference parent DIRECTLY, not using assembly at all (check this by reference viewer). As such they WILL NOT react on this Replace act as they are not driven by this particular assembly.

- Merge / Inheritance features : these ones are the only ones that will not update, even if created in Assembly context. This is quite understandable, since Merge copies entire model ... and when you want to replace that model - this is almost equal to recreation of Merge feature from scratch. So if you have assembly merges you need to plan in advance to re create them after such Replace action.

If you face any deviation from these rules - please reply, or feel free to contact TS folks and file a case.

Hope this helps,

- Vlad

[pdiletti-2]

Hi

in order to keep all references from old master model part to new skeleton part I found this procedure works fine :

1 - I open assembly with standard Master Model (master.prt)

2 - I remove references for assembly and I use Default constraint. Then I move this part on top of model tree

3 - I suppress all components of assembly except Master Model

4 - I "Erase not displayed" all components in memory 

5 - I open the original Master model and I rename it ( in session) with new name ( > master_temp)

6 - I manually rename ( directly on disk ) the original master model ( > master_old )

7 - In model tree I select the first component ( now the name is master_temp) and I replace it (by copy , copy as skeleton ) writing the name of new copy model like the original name of master model (master )

8 - I manually rename ( directly on disk ) the master model (master_old) back to the original name (master)

9 - I finally resume all the components of assembly.

That works fine because all logical references based on Copy Geometry features are saved !!

Of course it's important to repeat this procedure with all assemblies .

Bye

Pier

[FPerez]

Hye all from France.

Thanks all for these very good informations.

I confirm: External Copy Geom keep old regular part references....this is a problem !

To Pierluigi: as Vladimir wrote: "avoid renaming Creo models on the disk"

So I'm not "hot" to use the disk workaround and may create a "fake model"....

I'll try to find a "supported" workaround with PTC support.

Of course, I'll give result....if there is....

Thanks again....

[gkoch]

Thanks to all who contributed to this thread!

As it contains a lot of valuable information, I want to mark it as answered to reflect to community that knowledge can be retrieved from it.

Since I can only select one post as Correct Answer, I'll give the credits to Vladimir, who initially suggested this technique.

Gunter

[pdiletti-2]

Thanks everybody

for all comments !

Pier

[FPerez]

Pierluigi,

For information:

- I tried your "disk" workaround (we use Windchill). I think it is KO for External Copy Geom & Inheritance (still referencing the regular part).

- I opened PTC  request C13300093 to be sure there is no over supported workaround

Thanks. Fabrice

[pdiletti-2]

Hi Fabrice.

I also used my workaround in Windchill environment without any problem.

I have not inheritance feature. But everything is OK for Ext Copy Geometry !

Bye

Pierluigi

[FPerez]

Pierluigi,YOU'RE RIGHT. External copy geom switch correctly from regular to the skeleton model.

The problem is with inheritance feature: user must switch from inheritance to merge and go back to inheritance.

We had the same behavior when using disk backup workaround to change the source model of a inheritance part.........:-)

I didn't test with external public geom....we don't use them a lot...

I will attach the document I wrote in our intranet Creo internal help.

Sorry: it is in french & exported from HTML....just for info if it can help somebody

I think it is a good way to proceed because there is no disk backup....just playing with > Erase not display command !

(config.pro let_proe_rename_pdm_objects to yes is a pre-requesite but I not include it in the user methodology....)

Of course, this is my final personal methodology & shared with no responsabilities....

Thanks again to all.

Fabrice

[FPerez]

PDF french methodology....

[pdiletti-2]

Thank you Fabrice, but I can't speak french 🙂

Pier

[danb]

Goodstuff.

We have an issue when using the replace part.

The replace part by copy works but there is no box/opportuity to save as a skeleton.

I looked and could not see any conif. option does anyone know why this option/box does not even show?

We are using creo3 M100.

Thanks

Dan

[PeterL77]

Same question here. I am using Creo4 M060. Replace by copy works but there is no box/opportunity to save as a skeleton.