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Number/Name/File Name/Commom Name in Creo/Windchill

Number/Name/File Name/Commom Name in Creo/Windchill

It is too difficult for our customer understand what is the difference between the Name in Windchill and the name in Creo and the others. For example:

- When an user create a new CAD from Creo he/she has two options, Name and Common Name. But, the "name" field in Creo is the "Number" in Windchill and the "Common Name" in Creo is the "Name" in Windchill. Also, the "File Name" will be the same as "Name" when creating in Creo.

- When an user create a new CAD from Windchill he/she has all those options but with different meanings.

My suggestion is that the attributes are the same in both place: Number will be number, name will be name, and have the same options that they have in Windchill when creating a new CAD in Creo as well.

Thanks!

Felipe da Silva

32 Comments
Alexandrite

Providing such consistency in our labeling of these attributes in our two products would provide better clarity for our users.

Granite

Agreed 100%

Participant

Whatever the solution... IMO there needs to be a preference to allow the file name to align with the Number (for guaranteed uniqueness) but also allow for the pseudo-descriptive file names that many Users prefer, particularly at the concept phase.  In short, probably need capability of setting filename = Number(.prt/.asm/.drw) or filename = Name or filename = something else by Preference.  It would also be nice if this were incorporated into the create CAD Document option when creating a new WTPart as well as Save As (as of 10.2 M020 we need to copy/paste)

Pearl

And also make it possible to show in Creo also the name or number! At the moment in most dialogs only the number is available and the name can only be viewed in a separate column in the structure browser. Or another example is the open dialog. Only the filename is searchable even if you show a view from PDMLlink.

Participant

Bjorn, you can add columns to the Open dialog... which is how I was able to pry the User base away from the cryptic file naming.  Don't recall if it's searchable though.

Aquamarine

This should be looked at from a WTPart and Cad level in Windchill and all Creo applications(View and Parametric).  In our world, File Name and Number are equal while being unique to other Cad files.  Name for Cad is not unique between other cad files...example, we have 100's of cad files named "Pipe-Exhaust".  From the replies above, it seems common to have the File Name and Number be equal.  The default settings for WTParts make it painful to work with in the Windchill tables and views along with the workspaces.  Go to a Creo embedded browser with the three columns with a few CAD objects...then autoassociate the CAD files to create WTParts.  Reference picture below.  The ability to visibly see that number 4811 is associated to nd04-303-9_skel.prt is not possible in a table view.  Of course, maybe I'm just frustrated that the OOTB settings are catered towards the autonumber crowd!

  capture1.JPG

Participant

agreed 100%

Marble

Steve Shaw‌ Most customers would like to keep Numbers and Names equal or similar between WTPart and CADDoc.

This gets challenging due to different working methods like top down and bottom up as well as multiple CadDocs per article.

However you can overcome this challenges if you enforce a few basic rules and keep the WTPart number as the leader.

Option 1: Postpone the CAD Numbering to the WTPart Creation

This means the user can start bottom up with concept. At the point in time this gets serious WTParts get created automatically. Use "PartStructureOverrride" Attribute for all CADDocs you do not want any wtparts. The creation will reuse the description/name of CAD but generated a new number which is equal to the WTPart. In case you need multiple 3D or especially 2D CADDocs these should be incremented by a sub index. Today this is only possible in the WTNumber but maybe it is worth to elaborate the usage of an additional uniqueness field.

The outcome would be like this:

P123456 = P123456-000 3D Model

               = P123456-001 2D Drawing

               = P123456-002 2nd 2D Drawing

               = P123456-003 3D Model Simplified Rep

               = P123456-004 3D Model different CAD System

The name would/could be synchronized only for Owner links

If you start top down you can follow the same approach during association to rename the CADDoc.

Newbie

... and please, please, pretty please... make the Windchill Number attribute accessible in Creo for drawing, BOM, etc...

Contributor

We set up a customization in our instance to handle this. The user puts a description in for "name". Windchill assigns the filename as (part number)_(user's description) during check-in. The main downside is that check-in will fail if the concatenated name goes over 31 characters.

Aquamarine

Hello Oliver.

I am not sure when Steve provided this response; but I thought I would let you (all) know that in Windchill 11.0, there are new enhancements that allow CAD Document number==name==file name AND the "base number" is based on an auto-generated number which is also used for the Part number.  For example:

  Part Number is 00001234

  CAD Document identifiers are all the same and based on Part number; but contains extensions and suffixes to make it unique:

  • 0001234.PRT
  • 00001234_FLEX001.PRT
  • 00001234.DRW
  • 00001234.MFG
  • etc.

   To use this policy to its fullest, you need to change your focus in the UIs to be on CAD Document Number, since is the only value that can be generated using OIRs.  As a result, you would need to change your displays to hide name and file name.

Steps:

  1. Customize your OIRs for CAD Documents and Parts:
    • CAD Documents:
      1. Generate number from the same algorithm as your Parts
      2. Generate name from file name (CADName)
      3. Remove the immutable constraint on number
      4. Ensure that CADName (at least) is displaying “(Generated)” not the pre-generated number.
    • Parts
      1. Generate number from the same algorithm as your Parts
      2. Remove the immutable constraint on number
  2. Set all relevant server-side preferences (see affects below):
    • Operation > Auto Associate > Find and Create Part Using Base Number=Yes
    • Operation > Auto Associate > Auto Associate Truncate Number File Extension=Yes
    • Operation > Auto Associate > Force Autonumbered Part Creation=No
    • Operation > General > Base Number Regular Expression
    • Operation > New CAD Document > Set CAD Document Number Same As Part Number=Yes
    • Operation > New CAD Document > Synchronize CAD File Name with CAD Document Number=Yes
    • Operations > Upload Operation > Upload > Drop File Extension from Name=No
    • Operations > Upload Operation > Upload > Drop File Extension from Number=No
    • Save As > Inherit FileName from Number=Yes
  3. Hide fields from the UI (Optional):
    • From the Type and Attribute Management UI, you can remove Name and File Name from the following layouts:
      1. Default
      2. Create CAD Document
      3. Model Structure Attributes
      4. Primary Attributes
    • Use Table Views to hide name and file namefields from the UIs:
      1. Workspace
      2. Add to Workspace
      3. Check Out
      4. Check In
      5. Undo Check Out
      6. Update
      7. Remove From WS
      8. Etc.
    • Can hide per session Name and File Name using the Customize control in the table column header:
      1. Save As
      2. Rename
  4. Check the effects in all create UIs:
    • Ensure that the file’s extension is used in the CAD Document’s name and number when using upload, New CAD Document, Save As and Rename:
      1. Operations > Upload Operation > Upload > Drop File Extension from Name=No
      2. Operations > Upload Operation > Upload > Drop File Extension from Number=No
    • Ensure that the system is configured to find the “Base Number” (without extension/prefixes/suffixes).   The out of the box system removes any suffixes and extensions.
      1. Operations > General > Base Number Regular Expression
    • When creating both Part and CAD Document from the New Part wizard, ensure that the default is to use the Part’s number for number and file name:
      • Part Number:
        • This is likely to be autogenerated

        • Since you are using the same algorithm for CAD and Part numbering, there should be no numbering conflicts.
      • Number:
        • Operation > New CAD Document > Set CAD Document Number Same As Part Number=Yes to use the Part's number not a new generated number.
        • Drop File Extension from Number=No will append an extension based on the template's extension.
      • Name: Is generated by the OIR
      • File Name: Operation > New CAD Document > Synchronize CAD File Name with CAD Document Number=Yes will set it to be the same as number.
    • When creating a CAD Document and/or Part using the New CAD Document UI, set it up to use number as the key field.  The following previous preferences will ensure that it is generated correctly:
      1. Number:
        • Extension will be in number when Drop File Extension from Number=No
        • Number generated will not conflict with existing Part numbers if you are using the same algorithm to generate CAD Document and Part numbers.
        • If you need to add a suffix, then the number field defaults to the generated number; but is editable if you removed the immutable constraint in your OIR.
      2. Name will be generated on File Name based on the OIR
      3. File Name will be based on the generated number based on Synchronize CAD File Name with CAD Document Number=Yes.
      4. Part Number:
        • When Force Autonumbered Part Creation=No AND the Part’s number OIR is NOT immutable, then the “Create and Associate Part” checkbox will use the CAD Document’s base number.
        • Base number is found using Base Number Regular Expression.
    • When creating CAD Documents and/or Parts using Save As, set the default file name (and name via OIRs) to be the same as number, because you will either generate the number with an extension OR you will copy the related part’s number:
      1. Number:
        • Autogenerate: Extension will be in number when you use “autogenerate” option and Drop File Extension from Number=No
        • Generate document number based on related Part:
          1. The base number will be replaced with the Part’s number.
          2. Base number is found using the preference, Base Number Regular Expression
      2. Name will be generated on File Name based on the OIR.
      3. File Name:
        • Save As > Inherit FileName from Number=Yes will set File Number to be the same a CAD Document number.
      4. Part Number:
        • This is likely to be autogenerated
        • Since you are using the same algorithm for CAD and Part numbering, there should be no numbering conflicts.
    • When creating from Creo:
      1. Note: that in Creo 4, you can now use the File > New CAD Document menu to create the CAD Document and/or related Part without needing to go to the WS UI.
      2. Note: Name will be the Number without its extension when Drop File Extension from Number=No.
      3. If for some reason, you didn’t use the auto-generated number for “Name” in the Creo UI, then you can use the Rename action in WS.

  

Thanks

Jennifer

Aquamarine

Hello Alain.

It is possible to have additional "System parameters" passed to Creo.  The steps are documented here:

http://support.ptc.com/cs/help/windchill_hc/wc110_hc/index.jspx?id=ProEWCIntegCustDwnldServiceParamC...

We provide a java class out of the box which will add:

     44   private static String cadDocNumber = "WT_CADDOC_NUMBER";

     45   private static String associatedPartNumber = "WT_ASSOCIATED_PART_NUMBER";

     46   private static String associatedPartName = "WT_ASSOCIATED_PART_NAME";

     47   private static String ecnNumber = "ECN_NUMBER";

     48   private static String associatedPartRev = "SP_WM_PART_REV";

     49   private static String associatedPartIter = "SP_WM_PART_ITERATION";

     50   //private static String cadDocTeam = "SP_WM_PROJECT";

     51   private static String associatedPartView = "SP_WM_VIEW";

     52   private static String associatedPartLifeCycle = "SP_WM_PART_LIFECYCLE";

     53   private static String associatedPartType = "SP_WM_PART_TYPE";

     54   private static String associatedPartLCState = "SP_WM_PART_LC_STATE";

Note: I believe the "WT_ASSOCIATED_PART_NUMBER" and "WT_ASSOCIATED_PART_NAME" only work for an Owner associated Part (since there can only be one of those )

To show on the drawing the Part number, you would need to show the model's parameter.

Hope this helps.

Jennifer

Emerald I

Jennifer Pierron‌,

The problem with this approach is three fold.

1.)  The parameters names don't follow the same syntax as the rest of the PTC_WM_* parameters.

2.)  It requires someone to manually customize the system.

3.)  These parameters don't automatically update in the workspace when their server side values change.

Please, please, please add these Windchill system parameters to ALL of the WGMs (including Creo) without requiring additional customization.

Contributor

Here's the problem in one picture:

Creo naming.png

In Creo, "Name" should be changed to say "File Name"

In Creo and Windchill, Common Name and Name should both be changed to "Title" or similar.

Aquamarine

Hi Tom.

Thanks for your reply.   I agree there are limitations and we are considering expanding system parameters for Creo; but I wanted to make sure that you and others know about what is currently possible.

To your issues:

1.)  The parameters names don't follow the same syntax as the rest of the PTC_WM_* parameters.

<jlmp> Ok.  No workaround here, since Creo would prevent PTC_ parameters to be created.

2.)  It requires someone to manually customize the system.

<jlmp> Yes.  Ideally it is a simpler configuration.

3.)  These parameters don't automatically update in the workspace when their server side values change.

<jlmp> For this one, although you are right that the values ONLY update on download of the CAD Document (e.g. an Add to WS or Update), for Master attributes like Number and Name, they change rarely, (which I think was the original request); therefore, I think if you are willing to invest some time to set it up, practically, these attributes may often be up to date.


Thanks

Jennifer

Emerald I

Jennifer Pierron‌,

Thanks for the reply.  Just a comment on point three.  We do rename files quite a bit (name, number, and filename.)  Designers will often give things temporary names during development and then rename them to their "official" names just prior to release.  These new names will not automatically show up in the local workspace using this customization approach.

Regular Member

It is the problem, but not the whole problem.

I assume the Creo "Name" is always the Windchill "File Name" minus the file extension. It should not be too hard to add a label after the Creo Name field showing the extension for the selected type (sub-type?) and re-label the line "File Name".

The "Common name" should be locked when the model is checked in. Here my assumption is that "Common name" is linked to the Name of the Windchill CAD Part, so changing the Creo "Common name" for a single iteration would rename all iterations of this CAD Part. Therefore this field needs to be driven by Windchill and should not be available for CAD models managed by Windchill.

"Number" is a ERP/PLM concept and needs to be driven by Windchill also because of associated documentation.

I guess what I am saying is that there should be a better distinction between standalone Creo and Creo in a Windchill environment. The Creo "New" dialog is geared towards a standalone Creo and should be replaced by a suitable Windchill new CAD document dialog when connected to a Windchill system.

Obviously, to reduce confusion, all instances and references to a certain piece of information must be named in a consistent manner.

0,02€

Pearl

The "common name" ist a master attribute which is valid for all iteration. This makes absolutely sense. If the name is being changed, then for all iterations. Unfortunately the user can't change the name in the workspace and he needs about "feeled 100 clicks" to get to the right place to change the common attributes.

In Creo 4 you have the create new CAD Document in the menu available. So at least this problem will be solved.

But the number, filename and name problem is still not solved.

E.g. the user creates a new CAD-Document Model

Number: 8643213654

Name: Engine Module

Filename: 8643213654.PRT

Afterwards he checks in the CAD-Model and creates a new Drawing:

Number: 8643213658

Name: Explored Engine Module

Filename: 8643213658.DRW

And he needs a second drawing

Number: 8643217787

Name: Assembled Engine Module

Filename: 8643217787.DRW

And at the end he creates the WTPart

Number: 1654789

Name: Engine Module

So these relationships and numbers are for an engineer very hard to remember. He doesn't want to see the document number (Filename) in Creo. He would like to see the WTPart number and the name! And this is for me the real problem. In the Workspace he has no structured view. So the drawings, model and WTPart are not bundled together. It's just a dumm list.

I know that we could make the WTPart number the same as the model number, but there are so many cases, where a CAD Model will be linked to another WTPart. Or the model needs to have a second drawing (not sheet). So it makes for me no sense. I would like to have a number generator for all documents and parts, but a better workspace view (structured) and the possiblity to replace the filename like in Creo View with some concatenate attribute values. And this value should be available everywhere in every menu (open, add, find, etc.)  and not only in the Structure pane.

Amethyst

Agree with Bjorn

Same capability as for CreoView il all Creo places ....

For the same reasons, still difficult to sell to our end users a non meaningfull numbering schema for Creo files.

regards

Gregory

Pearl

I opened up a new creo product idea

Make Creo flexible with alternate part names

This would make the work (world) a lot more easier...!

Alexandrite

Thank you for the idea we are investigating and defining a solution, thanks, Jim

Pearl

This is by the way the idea

Make Creo flexible with alternate part names

Community Manager
Status changed to: Implementation In Progress
 
Aquamarine

Hello All.

 

Creo 5.0 has changed its user interface to have a better alignment of terms.

 

Please see the Creo 5.0 help center for more details:

Thanks

Jennifer

Emerald I

@JenniferPierron,

This is good but it's still only half way there.  Any idea when "Common name" will be changed to "Name" so it too matches Windchill?

Common Name.png

Better yet, when will "Number" be able to be used directly in Creo in place of "File name"?