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8.0 Silence??

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Participant

8.0 Silence??

Hi All,



I find the lack of discussion of Intralink 8.0 in is forum to be odd. I'm wondering where everyone stands on migration? It seems to me that migrating to 8.0 is a much bigger deal than it was upgrading from Pro/E 2001 to Wildfire. I'm thinking larger organizations may evaluate PDMLink for migration rather than Intralink 8.0 since PDMLink will give more "bang for the migration buck." I'm thinking that smaller organizations may be lost in the "Intralink Sea" and will stay with Intralink 3.x until the end.



I think my "deal breaker" (as Dr. Phil would say) with Intralink 8.0 may be it's apparent lack of import/export capability. We import and export many file types on a daily basis. The Intralink 3.4 to Intralink 8.0 Menu Mapper says that import/export in Intralink 8.0 is performed by file open/backup in Pro/Engineer. This is nice, however what if you want to import/export 1000's of Pro/E files?

What about non-Pro/E files? The Menu Mapper says to use "Create Document" to "import" a non-Pro/E file and says nothing about export. What happens if I have 1000's of AutoCAD, PDF, or other files to import/export? We do such activities on a routine basis.



I'd like to know what others are thinking of this new software? The aforementioned issues are enough to put the last nail in our Intralink 8.0 coffin. I'm sure others have their 8.0 coffin nailed shut as well. If we expect to migrate from 3.4 we may have to pull out our collective "PTC crowbars" and convince PTC to improve this software, or at least put back functionality we have today.


Dave Engel
MFS / J. F. Taylor, Inc.
Aircraft Simulation Division
98912 Switzer Road, Bldg. 2191
Patuxent River, MD 20670-1907
David.F.Engel@navy.mil



14 REPLIES 14
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RE: 8.0 Silence??

I've installed and migrated Intralink 8.0 on a test server. The Migration was relatively easy after going on the admin course and understanding how Intralink 8.0 works. I didn't go on the migration course I just worked through the manual and it was quite straight forward for a migration of 6500 objects ( a small database).

The part that got me was the installation. It wasn't smooth and I had to use tech support quite a bit. It took anything from 1 hour to over a week to get answers from them.

With regards missing functionality we have a problem in that we skip versions in Intralink 3.3. To tie in with our ERP parts could go from version 3A to 4A skipping 3B,3C----3Z. I have put in a enhancement request to PTC as without this functionality there is no way we can use Intralink 8

Jonathan White
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RE: 8.0 Silence??

This is an interesting post and I'm anxious to here the responses. From
the reseller point of view, we too struggle with the message we need to
convey to the companies out there. As a professional I must take in the
information and build the business case for potential clients. As an
Engineer first, I tend to look at the functionality of the INTRALINK 8.0
solution vs.. the functionality of PDMLink. Here is my humble opinion:

If you plan on migrating any data at all, the cost between moving to
iLink 8.0 and PDMLink approaches the same investment.

If you take the cost of migrating the data and installing and
implementing the solution, the cost of purchasing PDMLink seats becomes
small compared with the aforementioned. So in my opinion if you are
going to make a move I would skip right over iLink 8.0 and go right to
PDMLink. If you add the potential functionality you gain then it
becomes a no-brainer.

If you don't want to make the move, then consider the consequences:
We're told that iLink 3.x will no longer be supported and future
versions of Pro/E may not be compatible with iLink 3.x. With that said
consider the costs of moving today vs. what the costs will be in the
future.

Many times we find software which meets our needs and upgrading is not
needed. I keep thinking about Intergraph and Microstation and the cost
of the old Unix boxes out there....eventually the your customers or the
market forces a move.....

David Chippi
Business Development Manager
ADI
32184 Teasel Ct.
Avon Lake, OH 44012
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RE: 8.0 Silence??

I agree. I went to the Pro/INTRALINK 8 workshop that was in Philly and
you could hear our collective jaws hit the floor when we heard that some
of the basic functionality that you describe below was missing. Other
items such as no more frames, can't update parents on a duplicate object
(there really is no more duplication feature in Ilink, it's now the
SaveAs functionality in Pro/E) and the lack of ability for the
administrator to unlock an object in Commonspace that a user has checked
out. The only way to unlock it for others' use is to log in as that
user and check it back in. PTC did a little tap dance and said that
these functionalities, or lack thereof, are on their to-do list and
wouldn't probably show up until the next major release. Considering 8
just came out, I don't know when to expect 9. Are the advantages of 8
worth dealing with its shortcomings or do you wait for the product to
mature a little more? That's obviously on a company by company basis...

PDMLink isn't necessarily "more bang for the migration buck". The
licensing scheme is user-based instead of the current generic floating
license setup on 3.x. Also, you must purchase a stand-alone seat of
Oracle (Standard = $15K/cpu and Enterprise = $40K/cpu).

Joe

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RE: 8.0 Silence??

Dave,

I recently mention to my company it's time to upgrade Intralink to 8.0.
All I could see was fear in their eyes. About every time this year some
pure soul has to waste holiday vacation to upgrade to the NEW Intralink.
After which is not necessarily a better solution. The only reason to
upgrade is not to be two version behind and have to pay for it. To make
things worse every user is going to complain for months until they are
comfortable with the new interface. By then it's time for a new upgrade.

But back to the point, we are a smaller company that you speak of, and
are plan is to stay with Intralink 3.4. Reason 1: We are still using
Windows 2000 server (no longer supported) Intralink 8.0 runs fine on
2000 but is only certified to run on 2003 server. Reason 2: We have
commit to much time to PTC and the return is nearly zero. Reason 3: From
what I understand you have to pay for a remote session if you run into
problems. Other option would be waiting for a reply back from tech
support.

From my stand point PTC is a tech support company not a software
company. I would like to be convinced otherwise.


Keith Knowlton
<mailto:keith.knowlton@ameridrives.com?subject=ameridrives>


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RE: 8.0 Silence??

Interesting to see these comments. These will be very good questions for
our PTC demo and cost presentation on the 16th of this month. We have been
looking at Intralink 8 or PDMLink for the bandwidth improvements for a
global project. Currently we do not replicate databases and multiple
facilities have their own Intralink installs. This makes for the sharing
and reuse of data across the global corporation a major headache if not
impossible.

I am too very interested in seeing any other pitfalls or software
limitations people have experienced during upgrade or training.

Brian Noll
Software Development Engineer
YORK / A Johnson Controls Company
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RE: 8.0 Silence??

Joe, you make great points. The song and dance you speak of is typical
of PTC. They (PTC) tend to push out 50% solutions and then fix them in
the next rev. Look at Wildfire 3 for instance by there own admission
the release date was shelled so that more time could be spent fixing the
1000's of SPR's, TAN's ect from previous versions. I truly hope
Wildfire 3 signals a new turn for PTC, I applaud there efforts in trying
to deliver a 100% solution with wildfire 3. The decision to postpone
the released took balls of steel!!!! As for INTRALINK 8 my company is
content to sit back for a year or so and let the collective dust settle
on this. We too import a lot of different data sets this would be a
deal breaker for us as well. The workflow also sucks compared to ilink
3.x We are currently on Wildfire 2 M160 and 3.4 M020. Also for all you
PTC salesmen out there please do a better job of explaining what the
benefits of Windchill I mean Intralink 8 are compared to PDMlink and
vice versa. A company like mine with 220 Pro-E users may be better off
with PDMLink for instance than a company with 8 users where Intralink 8
may be a better solution. There verdict is out for me I don't feel that
this will be a 1 program fit all companies situation type of rollout.

Brian

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RE: 8.0 Silence??

Dave,

You're timing is perfect. I've been collecting tidbits of information
like this so I could review them and pick out the most critical for my
company. I just have not had a chance to put it all together yet.
However, it is now high on my list because we can discuss it face to
face and with PTC next week!

Perhaps others have been hording e-mails or notes on potential issues
with Pro/I 8 for later review too. If you're not going to the TC
meetings next week, perhaps you can pick the highlights from your
collection and post them to this discussion. Those who are attending
can go into the meeting with these issues fresh in our minds. Is this a
major issue for discussion in the DMTC? Mark Crum, my apologies if I
just possibly goofed up the planned meeting agenda.

Daniel Reid
CAD Project Engineer
Kenworth Truck Company
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RE: 8.0 Silence??

ILINK 3.4 is to be supported till June 2008..Meaning WF3 due in
March/April will be support with 3.4..Wildfire 4 is questionable, but I
doubt it.

That being said...being with a small company, with limited resources (IT
& money involved with migration and training..not to mention
testing)...I will be waiting till at least the end of 2006 before
considering the move..If it happens the way I figure, 2007 will be a
year of testing and migration planning, with a move in early 2008

With the amount of time 3.4 is supported, this allows, I hope, another
big release of 8.0, with Bug fixes and again I hope, functionality that
is missing to be added back in.


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RE: 8.0 Silence??

All,

There seem to be a lot of misconceptions around Oracle licensing and
fees. I will try to clear up two of the major ones here.

First, for use with Intralink/Pdmlink/Windchill any flavor of Oracle
will do. That is, there is nothing required by
Intralink/PDMLink/Windchill that is not in the basic Oracle Standard
Edition One package. So there is no requirement to buy any of the
"full" packages such as Enterprise.
Second, you can license Oracle either by user or by cpu. Obviously you
will want to choose the one that is most economical for you. The
complete rules for what and how many are a little complex but can be
summarized as follows:

Standard Edition One Named User Plus 1 $149.00 per user list
1 year maintenance & support $30.00 per lic list

Standard Edition One (2cpu max) $4995.00 per cpu list
(single server systems and max 2 cpus unlimited users)
1 year maintenance & support $995.00 per cpu
list

Standard Edition (2+ cpus) $15000.00 per cpu
list


This is not to say these are the only options. All forms of Oracle are
available on a per user basis but it quickly adds up to the per
processor fee. It will really depend on the size of your organization
and how many people will be connecting and whether your outside
customers will be connecting.

So if you are a small shop with less than 50 people who will access the
PDMLink then you will most likely only need to buy $7500 worth of named
user Standard Edition One licenses.

For us, we plan on using two Standard Edition One licenses for a dual
CPU oracle install to service about 1000 users when we get to
production. While we are in development and testing, we are running $3k
worth of named user lics. One nice thing Oracle does for you is that
you can put your original investment toward an upgrade in the future.
So when we upgrade to the 2 cpu licenses for production we will only
have to pay an additional $7k for the licenses.

Keep in mind this information is without discounts etc. I have heard
that if you purchase Oracle through PTC when purchasing say PDMLink
licenses that you can get a substantial discount. Also, this
information is from my experience and may not be completely accurate.
You should contact Oracle yourself and get proper quotes.

Kevin Holle
CAD Engineer, Senior
Harley-Davidson Motor Company
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RE: 8.0 Silence??

I have a black computer and white speakers.
I think I should upgrade my speakers to black first before I go to
Intralink 8.
Or should I get a white computer with black speakers .... AGHHH !!!

I'M SO CONFUSED !!!

I think we will wait until 3.X is no longer supported and then drive it
for a few years !

Chris


_____
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RE: 8.0 Silence??

I have had several meetings with PTC on Intralink 8.0 and they could
only come up with a dozen plus companies so far that have implemented
8.0. We are just starting developing a plan for 8.0 across the world
and it sounds like there are quite a few others in the same place.

Intralink 8.0 has only just release it's second version so it may be
time to start to look at it seriously.

--
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RE: 8.0 Silence??

For those of you who want to discuss the functional differences between
iLink 8.0 and PDMLink start threads on the following:

1) How does the way iLink 8.0 and PDMLink manage assemblies and BOM
structures?
2) Will I get built in visualization with iLink 8.0? (tip:NO, if you're
intent on iLink 8.0 you will need to buy graphics server first before
you get the "Windchill visualization CD" to be installed, graphics
server cost is $5k just for the server. No graphics server no
visualization)
3) What CAD integrations come with iLink 8.0?
4) Does iLink 8.0 come with MS Office integration capability?
5) Can I add change management or configuration management to iLink 8.0?
6) If I was to pay someone to migrate my data from either iLink 3.x or a
file folder system, what would be the cost differential to go to iLink
8.0 or PDMLink?

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RE: 8.0 Silence??

The silence has been broken with many intelligent posts, however I'll post a full summary tomorrow in the event more people want to contribute. It would appear that many people have concerns like mine. I get the feeling most folks will wait for Intralink 9 or 10.

Dave Engel
MFS / J. F. Taylor, Inc.
Aircraft Simulation Division
98912 Switzer Road, Bldg. 2191
Patuxent River, MD 20670-1907
David.F.Engel@navy.mil
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RE: 8.0 Silence??

Dear PTC/User Data Management Community,

I'd like to respond to some of the Pro/INTRALINK 8.0 product
issues/concerns raised in this email thread. But first, PTC
acknowledges that there are some differences in functionality between
Pro/INTRALINK 3.x and 8.0 and we are fully committed to continuing to
enhance Pro/INTRALINK 8.0.

* Skipping Revisions: In 8.0 M020 (Pro/INTRALINK and PDMLink) PTC
is introducing the ability to directly set the revision (e.g. A, B, C,
D) of an object. 8.0 M020 is scheduled to release at the end of March.
* Admin Undo/Checkout: In 8.0 F000 (Pro/INTRALINK and PDMLink) an
administrator does have the ability to Undo Checkout a CAD Document
checked out by another user. To do this the administrator selects the
Undo Checkout action from the workspace property page of the desired
object. In 8.0 this command does not present the admin with any UI
confirming the action. In 9.0 we will be enhancing this command to
provide a UI.
* Workspace Frames: "Workspace Frame" capabilities are not
available with the use of 8.0 and Wildfire 2.0. However, Pro/E Wildfire
2.0 does include extensive Undo/Redo capabilities that in some cases may
eliminate the need for Frames. Furthermore, with the combination of
Pro/INTRALINK 9.0 and Pro/E Wildfire 4.0 PTC plans on delivering
workspace frame capabilities.
* Import/Export: While Pro/INTRALINK 8.0 and PDMLink 8.0 do not
provide direct Import/Export commands in the Workspace, a user can use
the Pro/ENGINEER "backup" command to export a dataset from the
workspace. In addition, Pro/INTRALINK 8.0 and PDMLink 8.0 do include
server-side Import/Export capabilities. These capabilities were
designed to move data between Windchill-based systems. They were not
designed for sending data to external users (e.g. suppliers). However,
for some use cases (including importing/exporting large amounts of
non-CAD data) these tools may be very applicable. This capability does
NOT exist in Pro/INTRALINK 3.x. Lastly, PTC's integral Windchill
PDMLink/ProjectLink environment is ideal for supplier collaboration.

Next, with Pro/E Wildfire 3.0 PTC will be delivering new
workspace export capabilities. This will provide the ability to
explicitly export an entire workspace (including model files and
metadata). The exported workspace (aka "Portable Workspace") can then
be accessed offline and keeps track of changes.

And, with Pro/INTRALINK 9.0 and Windchill PDMLink 9.0 PTC plans
on introducing the ability to import and export selected objects
directly from a workspace. (Capabilities very similar to what exists in
Pro/INTRALINK 3.4 today)

* Duplicate (with Update Parent): 8.0 includes server-side "Save
As" capabilities that are very similar to Pro/INTRALINK "duplicate" but
on the server. In the 9.0 release PTC intends to introduce "save as"
capabilities in the Workspace including "update parent."
* Oracle Licensing: PTC offers two versions of Pro/INTRALINK, one
that includes embedded Oracle licenses and one that does not. Customers
using a version of Pro/INTRALINK 3.x that includes an embedded Oracle
license do NOT need to purchase new Oracle licenses when they upgrade to
Pro/INTRALINK 8.0.

I hope this information is helpful as you develop your upgrade/migration
plans.

Regards,

Will Kohler
PTC
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