I find the lack of discussion of Intralink 8.0 in is forum to be odd. I'm wondering where everyone stands on migration? It seems to me that migrating to 8.0 is a much bigger deal than it was upgrading from Pro/E 2001 to Wildfire. I'm thinking larger organizations may evaluate PDMLink for migration rather than Intralink 8.0 since PDMLink will give more "bang for the migration buck." I'm thinking that smaller organizations may be lost in the "Intralink Sea" and will stay with Intralink 3.x until the end.
I think my "deal breaker" (as Dr. Phil would say) with Intralink 8.0 may be it's apparent lack of import/export capability. We import and export many file types on a daily basis. The Intralink 3.4 to Intralink 8.0 Menu Mapper says that import/export in Intralink 8.0 is performed by file open/backup in Pro/Engineer. This is nice, however what if you want to import/export 1000's of Pro/E files?
What about non-Pro/E files? The Menu Mapper says to use "Create Document" to "import" a non-Pro/E file and says nothing about export. What happens if I have 1000's of AutoCAD, PDF, or other files to import/export? We do such activities on a routine basis.
I'd like to know what others are thinking of this new software? The aforementioned issues are enough to put the last nail in our Intralink 8.0 coffin. I'm sure others have their 8.0 coffin nailed shut as well. If we expect to migrate from 3.4 we may have to pull out our collective "PTC crowbars" and convince PTC to improve this software, or at least put back functionality we have today.
Dave Engel MFS / J. F. Taylor, Inc. Aircraft Simulation Division 98912 Switzer Road, Bldg. 2191 Patuxent River, MD 20670-1907 David.F.Engel@navy.mil
I've installed and migrated Intralink 8.0 on a test server. The Migration was relatively easy after going on the admin course and understanding how Intralink 8.0 works. I didn't go on the migration course I just worked through the manual and it was quite straight forward for a migration of 6500 objects ( a small database). The part that got me was the installation. It wasn't smooth and I had to use tech support quite a bit. It took anything from 1 hour to over a week to get answers from them. With regards missing functionality we have a problem in that we skip versions in Intralink 3.3. To tie in with our ERP parts could go from version 3A to 4A skipping 3B,3C----3Z. I have put in a enhancement request to PTC as without this functionality there is no way we can use Intralink 8 Jonathan White
This is an interesting post and I'm anxious to here the responses. From the reseller point of view, we too struggle with the message we need to convey to the companies out there. As a professional I must take in the information and build the business case for potential clients. As an Engineer first, I tend to look at the functionality of the INTRALINK 8.0 solution vs.. the functionality of PDMLink. Here is my humble opinion: If you plan on migrating any data at all, the cost between moving to iLink 8.0 and PDMLink approaches the same investment. If you take the cost of migrating the data and installing and implementing the solution, the cost of purchasing PDMLink seats becomes small compared with the aforementioned. So in my opinion if you are going to make a move I would skip right over iLink 8.0 and go right to PDMLink. If you add the potential functionality you gain then it becomes a no-brainer. If you don't want to make the move, then consider the consequences: We're told that iLink 3.x will no longer be supported and future versions of Pro/E may not be compatible with iLink 3.x. With that said consider the costs of moving today vs. what the costs will be in the future. Many times we find software which meets our needs and upgrading is not needed. I keep thinking about Intergraph and Microstation and the cost of the old Unix boxes out there....eventually the your customers or the market forces a move..... David Chippi Business Development Manager ADI 32184 Teasel Ct. Avon Lake, OH 44012
I agree. I went to the Pro/INTRALINK 8 workshop that was in Philly and you could hear our collective jaws hit the floor when we heard that some of the basic functionality that you describe below was missing. Other items such as no more frames, can't update parents on a duplicate object (there really is no more duplication feature in Ilink, it's now the SaveAs functionality in Pro/E) and the lack of ability for the administrator to unlock an object in Commonspace that a user has checked out. The only way to unlock it for others' use is to log in as that user and check it back in. PTC did a little tap dance and said that these functionalities, or lack thereof, are on their to-do list and wouldn't probably show up until the next major release. Considering 8 just came out, I don't know when to expect 9. Are the advantages of 8 worth dealing with its shortcomings or do you wait for the product to mature a little more? That's obviously on a company by company basis... PDMLink isn't necessarily "more bang for the migration buck". The licensing scheme is user-based instead of the current generic floating license setup on 3.x. Also, you must purchase a stand-alone seat of Oracle (Standard = $15K/cpu and Enterprise = $40K/cpu). Joe
Dave, I recently mention to my company it's time to upgrade Intralink to 8.0. All I could see was fear in their eyes. About every time this year some pure soul has to waste holiday vacation to upgrade to the NEW Intralink. After which is not necessarily a better solution. The only reason to upgrade is not to be two version behind and have to pay for it. To make things worse every user is going to complain for months until they are comfortable with the new interface. By then it's time for a new upgrade. But back to the point, we are a smaller company that you speak of, and are plan is to stay with Intralink 3.4. Reason 1: We are still using Windows 2000 server (no longer supported) Intralink 8.0 runs fine on 2000 but is only certified to run on 2003 server. Reason 2: We have commit to much time to PTC and the return is nearly zero. Reason 3: From what I understand you have to pay for a remote session if you run into problems. Other option would be waiting for a reply back from tech support. From my stand point PTC is a tech support company not a software company. I would like to be convinced otherwise.
Keith Knowlton <mailto:email@example.com?subject=ameridrives>
Interesting to see these comments. These will be very good questions for our PTC demo and cost presentation on the 16th of this month. We have been looking at Intralink 8 or PDMLink for the bandwidth improvements for a global project. Currently we do not replicate databases and multiple facilities have their own Intralink installs. This makes for the sharing and reuse of data across the global corporation a major headache if not impossible.
I am too very interested in seeing any other pitfalls or software limitations people have experienced during upgrade or training.
Brian Noll Software Development Engineer YORK / A Johnson Controls Company
Joe, you make great points. The song and dance you speak of is typical of PTC. They (PTC) tend to push out 50% solutions and then fix them in the next rev. Look at Wildfire 3 for instance by there own admission the release date was shelled so that more time could be spent fixing the 1000's of SPR's, TAN's ect from previous versions. I truly hope Wildfire 3 signals a new turn for PTC, I applaud there efforts in trying to deliver a 100% solution with wildfire 3. The decision to postpone the released took balls of steel!!!! As for INTRALINK 8 my company is content to sit back for a year or so and let the collective dust settle on this. We too import a lot of different data sets this would be a deal breaker for us as well. The workflow also sucks compared to ilink 3.x We are currently on Wildfire 2 M160 and 3.4 M020. Also for all you PTC salesmen out there please do a better job of explaining what the benefits of Windchill I mean Intralink 8 are compared to PDMlink and vice versa. A company like mine with 220 Pro-E users may be better off with PDMLink for instance than a company with 8 users where Intralink 8 may be a better solution. There verdict is out for me I don't feel that this will be a 1 program fit all companies situation type of rollout. Brian
Dave, You're timing is perfect. I've been collecting tidbits of information like this so I could review them and pick out the most critical for my company. I just have not had a chance to put it all together yet. However, it is now high on my list because we can discuss it face to face and with PTC next week! Perhaps others have been hording e-mails or notes on potential issues with Pro/I 8 for later review too. If you're not going to the TC meetings next week, perhaps you can pick the highlights from your collection and post them to this discussion. Those who are attending can go into the meeting with these issues fresh in our minds. Is this a major issue for discussion in the DMTC? Mark Crum, my apologies if I just possibly goofed up the planned meeting agenda. Daniel Reid CAD Project Engineer Kenworth Truck Company
ILINK 3.4 is to be supported till June 2008..Meaning WF3 due in March/April will be support with 3.4..Wildfire 4 is questionable, but I doubt it. That being said...being with a small company, with limited resources (IT & money involved with migration and training..not to mention testing)...I will be waiting till at least the end of 2006 before considering the move..If it happens the way I figure, 2007 will be a year of testing and migration planning, with a move in early 2008 With the amount of time 3.4 is supported, this allows, I hope, another big release of 8.0, with Bug fixes and again I hope, functionality that is missing to be added back in.
All, There seem to be a lot of misconceptions around Oracle licensing and fees. I will try to clear up two of the major ones here. First, for use with Intralink/Pdmlink/Windchill any flavor of Oracle will do. That is, there is nothing required by Intralink/PDMLink/Windchill that is not in the basic Oracle Standard Edition One package. So there is no requirement to buy any of the "full" packages such as Enterprise. Second, you can license Oracle either by user or by cpu. Obviously you will want to choose the one that is most economical for you. The complete rules for what and how many are a little complex but can be summarized as follows: Standard Edition One Named User Plus 1 $149.00 per user list 1 year maintenance & support $30.00 per lic list Standard Edition One (2cpu max) $4995.00 per cpu list (single server systems and max 2 cpus unlimited users) 1 year maintenance & support $995.00 per cpu list Standard Edition (2+ cpus) $15000.00 per cpu list This is not to say these are the only options. All forms of Oracle are available on a per user basis but it quickly adds up to the per processor fee. It will really depend on the size of your organization and how many people will be connecting and whether your outside customers will be connecting. So if you are a small shop with less than 50 people who will access the PDMLink then you will most likely only need to buy $7500 worth of named user Standard Edition One licenses. For us, we plan on using two Standard Edition One licenses for a dual CPU oracle install to service about 1000 users when we get to production. While we are in development and testing, we are running $3k worth of named user lics. One nice thing Oracle does for you is that you can put your original investment toward an upgrade in the future. So when we upgrade to the 2 cpu licenses for production we will only have to pay an additional $7k for the licenses. Keep in mind this information is without discounts etc. I have heard that if you purchase Oracle through PTC when purchasing say PDMLink licenses that you can get a substantial discount. Also, this information is from my experience and may not be completely accurate. You should contact Oracle yourself and get proper quotes. Kevin Holle CAD Engineer, Senior Harley-Davidson Motor Company
I have a black computer and white speakers. I think I should upgrade my speakers to black first before I go to Intralink 8. Or should I get a white computer with black speakers .... AGHHH !!! I'M SO CONFUSED !!! I think we will wait until 3.X is no longer supported and then drive it for a few years ! Chris
I have had several meetings with PTC on Intralink 8.0 and they could only come up with a dozen plus companies so far that have implemented 8.0. We are just starting developing a plan for 8.0 across the world and it sounds like there are quite a few others in the same place.
Intralink 8.0 has only just release it's second version so it may be time to start to look at it seriously.
For those of you who want to discuss the functional differences between iLink 8.0 and PDMLink start threads on the following: 1) How does the way iLink 8.0 and PDMLink manage assemblies and BOM structures? 2) Will I get built in visualization with iLink 8.0? (tip:NO, if you're intent on iLink 8.0 you will need to buy graphics server first before you get the "Windchill visualization CD" to be installed, graphics server cost is $5k just for the server. No graphics server no visualization) 3) What CAD integrations come with iLink 8.0? 4) Does iLink 8.0 come with MS Office integration capability? 5) Can I add change management or configuration management to iLink 8.0? 6) If I was to pay someone to migrate my data from either iLink 3.x or a file folder system, what would be the cost differential to go to iLink 8.0 or PDMLink?
The silence has been broken with many intelligent posts, however I'll post a full summary tomorrow in the event more people want to contribute. It would appear that many people have concerns like mine. I get the feeling most folks will wait for Intralink 9 or 10.
Dave Engel MFS / J. F. Taylor, Inc. Aircraft Simulation Division 98912 Switzer Road, Bldg. 2191 Patuxent River, MD 20670-1907 David.F.Engel@navy.mil
Dear PTC/User Data Management Community, I'd like to respond to some of the Pro/INTRALINK 8.0 product issues/concerns raised in this email thread. But first, PTC acknowledges that there are some differences in functionality between Pro/INTRALINK 3.x and 8.0 and we are fully committed to continuing to enhance Pro/INTRALINK 8.0.
* Skipping Revisions: In 8.0 M020 (Pro/INTRALINK and PDMLink) PTC is introducing the ability to directly set the revision (e.g. A, B, C, D) of an object. 8.0 M020 is scheduled to release at the end of March. * Admin Undo/Checkout: In 8.0 F000 (Pro/INTRALINK and PDMLink) an administrator does have the ability to Undo Checkout a CAD Document checked out by another user. To do this the administrator selects the Undo Checkout action from the workspace property page of the desired object. In 8.0 this command does not present the admin with any UI confirming the action. In 9.0 we will be enhancing this command to provide a UI. * Workspace Frames: "Workspace Frame" capabilities are not available with the use of 8.0 and Wildfire 2.0. However, Pro/E Wildfire 2.0 does include extensive Undo/Redo capabilities that in some cases may eliminate the need for Frames. Furthermore, with the combination of Pro/INTRALINK 9.0 and Pro/E Wildfire 4.0 PTC plans on delivering workspace frame capabilities. * Import/Export: While Pro/INTRALINK 8.0 and PDMLink 8.0 do not provide direct Import/Export commands in the Workspace, a user can use the Pro/ENGINEER "backup" command to export a dataset from the workspace. In addition, Pro/INTRALINK 8.0 and PDMLink 8.0 do include server-side Import/Export capabilities. These capabilities were designed to move data between Windchill-based systems. They were not designed for sending data to external users (e.g. suppliers). However, for some use cases (including importing/exporting large amounts of non-CAD data) these tools may be very applicable. This capability does NOT exist in Pro/INTRALINK 3.x. Lastly, PTC's integral Windchill PDMLink/ProjectLink environment is ideal for supplier collaboration.
Next, with Pro/E Wildfire 3.0 PTC will be delivering new workspace export capabilities. This will provide the ability to explicitly export an entire workspace (including model files and metadata). The exported workspace (aka "Portable Workspace") can then be accessed offline and keeps track of changes. And, with Pro/INTRALINK 9.0 and Windchill PDMLink 9.0 PTC plans on introducing the ability to import and export selected objects directly from a workspace. (Capabilities very similar to what exists in Pro/INTRALINK 3.4 today)
* Duplicate (with Update Parent): 8.0 includes server-side "Save As" capabilities that are very similar to Pro/INTRALINK "duplicate" but on the server. In the 9.0 release PTC intends to introduce "save as" capabilities in the Workspace including "update parent." * Oracle Licensing: PTC offers two versions of Pro/INTRALINK, one that includes embedded Oracle licenses and one that does not. Customers using a version of Pro/INTRALINK 3.x that includes an embedded Oracle license do NOT need to purchase new Oracle licenses when they upgrade to Pro/INTRALINK 8.0.
I hope this information is helpful as you develop your upgrade/migration plans. Regards, Will Kohler PTC