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17-Peridot
August 10, 2010
Question

Why does PTC company not to develop a suitable gear system?

  • August 10, 2010
  • 7 replies
  • 9388 views

Why does PTC company not to develop a suitable gear system? We just only need to enter the appropriate data that can generate a 3-D gear models, in this way to enhance efficiency. I know there is such a system for SW or gear plug-in( called GearTrax). Inventor also has such a system

    7 replies

    1-Visitor
    August 10, 2010

    There are plenty of possible answers, although I would expect that what will come down to is "bang for the buck".

    Gears can be developed in Pro/E, but it does take knowledge of gear design. Once you get one done, you can spit out variations really easily. That being said, if you're not hobbing your own gears, you're probably buying them from someone that does and has their own gear design software.

    So ultimately, I would say that there are probably more projects within PTC (such as Lightening) that they see as much more valuable and worthy of allocating time to than a functionality that is not going to get them any new contracts or close a glaring gap in their software.

    That being said, I'd be real interested in seeing the involute derivation from SW or Autodesk. I have seen several PTC models that do this fairly accurately.

    13-Aquamarine
    August 10, 2010

    It would be a 'nice-to-have', but even working for a transmission company it's not really essential. Since gears are manufacturing by hobbing (or shaping, or grinding) on gear manufacturing machines, there's usually no requirement to model the involute accurately - a sketch using a couple of arcs is sufficient to make gears 'look right' on a drawing. It's very unusual to cut gears directly from CAD.

    If accurate gears are required, it's fairly simple to use an equation-driven curve to produce the profile - you just need the equation for an involute, and enough parameters to define the gear (I think base circle, root and tip diameter, and number of teeth are sufficient).

    bduncan17-PeridotAuthor
    17-Peridot
    August 10, 2010

    Yes, but I want my models are three dimensional, and easy to check for interference, motion simulation, etc., With other people's ideas, isn't it? this is also more straightforward.

    August 11, 2010

    Check this out. It is in german but might still be useful -> http://userserv.fh-reutlingen.de/~wyndorps/Deutsch/ProE.htm

    12-Amethyst
    August 12, 2010

    I wish they had one too, many companies need to design custom gear trains. From personal experience, there is a lot more to getting a gear train to perform in real life than you learn in school. I'm guessing that's why some folks make statements along the lines that it isn't really necessary to have a geometrically accurate gear model. But gears are not as simple as commodity items like deep groove bearings because they interact with one another and getting the interaction the way you need it to be is not simple at all. Like any other assembly, having a dimensionally accurate model is an aid to the gear train design process for those of us who are really designing them as opposed to making simple drawings and leaving the details to others who are skilled in the art. If that level of play was acceptable I would be working at a drafting table and not on a "leading" CAD platform. As it is now, it takes a lot of time for you to create a gear model in Pro/E from scratch, let alone one with accurate geometry that deals properly with undercuts, profile shifts, clearances. I can't think of too many people who have the time to make such a model when they have to budget their time to develop a whole machine, not just a gear. Inventor and Solid Works both have nice gear design modules but PTC leaves us hanging. I hope they will offer something competitive, but the only way I see PTC coming out with such a program is if the can sell it for 5K as an optional module.

    Best of luck!

    Walt

    13-Aquamarine
    August 13, 2010

    "having a dimensionally accurate model is an aid to the gear train design process for those of us who are really designing them as opposed to making simple drawings and leaving the details to others"

    To clarify a little, the reason we can get away with pictorial models is that we do our gear design (and shaft/bearing analysis) in our own in-house software (Ricardo SABR - which is also commercially available... </plug> ). This deals with tooling, undercut, contact ratio, bending stress and life, contact stress and life, backlash and all the rest of it... Somehow, a 3D modelling package doesn't really seem like the right tool - it's too specialised an area. Also, the parameters can be defined mathematically, without needing to see the whole thing in 3D - I don't see that it's really a 3D problem as there are only a limited number of degrees of freedom, unlike designing a casting which can take an unlimited variety of different forms.

    Now, if Pro/E could generate cuts by sweeping a volume, this would not only give an easy way to produce accurate gears - by simulating the hobbing process - but would be useful for a lot of milled features too.

    10-Marble
    August 25, 2010

    Hello Blue,

    I have requested the same thing to PTC by the product enhancement for more than a year.

    There is no update from PTC side.

    Thanks.

    Gautam Vora.

    bduncan17-PeridotAuthor
    17-Peridot
    August 26, 2010

    PTC goes it's own way.

    10-Marble
    November 17, 2011

    I thank you for your reply.

    Gautam Vora.

    1-Visitor
    November 18, 2011

    For any kinematic analysis, one need not model a gear unless the same is going to be manufactured by RPT process. For any other parameter like undercut, contact ratio and such other parameters, one can always input formulae in an Excel sheet. Undercut is a function of Pressure angle and minumum number of teeth, while contact ratio is a function of proportion of "Addendum" and "Dedundum" for S0 and S1 corrected gears or for that matter Helical gears. All of these are mathematical functions / derivations. One can still define an equation for an involute (the base circle dia remains the same irrespective of gear correction), or perhaps drive the model parameters from the Excel table. This is a possibility. Though I never bothered to model a gear (A surface representing the OD is good enough for my applications), I had read certain forum postings detailing a method to drive the Proe parameters from an Excel table.

    One might also consider a UDF feature.

    1-Visitor
    November 18, 2011

    there is no need to relie on plug-ins. Pro/E itself capable of genrating Gear systems only if hv good knowldege of gears design calculations.

    10-Marble
    March 15, 2012

    I HAVE REQUESTED THAT AS PRODUCT ENCHANCEMENT TO PTC.

    24-Ruby III
    March 16, 2012