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Password Protecting and/or File Expiration

NEALROSENBLUM
1-Newbie

Password Protecting and/or File Expiration

All,

I am an independent mechanical design and engineering consultant. I develop many products for entrepreneurs with the next "million" dollar idea. It seems that I can never do enough to ensure payment fromthese customers. No matter how attentiveI amto my customers' needs, and no matter how awesome the design and prototypes function, all-to-often it seems that they still want to "stiff" me. When the job is complete, they try to negotiate price. Even after I get 50% down, they risk losing their inital 50% and stilltry to negotiate price (my terms are 50% down and payment of balance upon completion of work). When I ask fora bank check, they become offended. And the story goes on and on...

HOW CAN I CREATE EXPIRATION DATES ON PRO|E FILES?????? This is the big question?What if they pay me and then cancel the check (this has never happened to me, but it is only a matter of time)? How can I make it so that they have to come begging back? LOL!!!

Passwords are okay, but still not fullproof enough. If I could set a1 weekexpiration date on files untilthe customers'payments clear, then that would be great. Furthermore, I either need to restrict the ability to copy the files, or clone the expiration dates and/or passwords with any copies of those files.

Any ideas???

By the way, this is not a huge problem; however, it is bothersome enough to inquire about the possiblities and options. I don't want to have to take customers to small claims court. This is a complete waste of time. Judgements against my customers are easy, but collections are still nearly impossible.

I never have these problems with corporate customers. I come from corporate America, and my corporate customers are very professional in the way they process my quotes, purchase orders, etc.


Sincerely,
Neal Rosenblum
Geometrix Engineering, Inc.
201 N. 13th Avenue
Hollywood, FL 33019
Ph: 954-920-2049
Fax: 954-920-9574
Cell: 954-649-9399
<u>neal@geometrixeng.c</u>


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13 REPLIES 13

Neal,

Luckily I've never been waiting for more than a few weeks for payment, but I
have been considering the following strategy (although I've never
implemented it):
In your contract, specify that paper drawings/pdfs or STEP/IGES will be the
initial deliverable (which should solve the customer's immediate needs) ,
and that the native Pro/E models and drawings will be delivered only on
receipt of payment. This means that you will hold the intellectual (digital)
property and prevent the customer from using/modifying it until paid. Not
sure about the ethics, but you have to consider the ethics of not being
paid, too.





David Tate

Keystroke Designs,

Kelowna, BC, Canada

250-763-6633




wfalco
15-Moonstone
(To:NEALROSENBLUM)

Neal,

I hear ya!

It's not often I get stiffed....but there is one that did it big time.

Now I would like to introduce you all to a company to stay clear of:

wfalco
15-Moonstone
(To:NEALROSENBLUM)

One thing that can be done as a start is to send password protected Zip
files. I should have done this myself.

Hi Neal,
A tricky one. I have no knowledge of a Mission Impossible self destruct for ProE.

Some possible strategies:
For 3D
David mentioned STEP/IGES files which can work if you are supplying 3D files while you keep the ProE 3D. If you use this approach and you are at all concerned there are several things you could build into your parts and supply Initial Draft parts that are replaced by you on full payment. In the initial draft parts you could do things like make screw boss holes oversize so that screws would not tap into them; make recess pips on seal surfaces or any other type of feature that will be metal off a tool or simple to change in some way so as to seriously inconvenience the non payer. You could put a Draft Logo onto a surface of the parts to indicate they were preliminary. All of these strategies assume you are not supplying native ProE files and that with a few minutes work on your part suppressing or deleting these Initial Draft features you can then supply the final item on receipt of payment.

For 2D
I have not tried myself but you can add large open ProE text across the drawings as a watermark then supply PDFs only. There is probably a way to do watermarking in the PDF creation but I do not know how to do this.

I seem to recall some DRM facility built into WF4 but do not know how this works. It may be more for securing that the only the correct receiving party can read the files as opposed to having some time limit as you are discussing.

Good fortune for whatever you do and I hope it never comes to be an actual problem.

Regards, Brent Drysdale
Regards, Brent Drysdale
Mechanical Designer
Tait Electronics Ltd (www.taitworld.com)
New Zealand
Ph. +64 3 358 1093

Neal Rosenblum wrote:
All,
I am an independent mechanical design and engineering consultant. I develop many products for entrepreneurs with the next "million" dollar idea. It seems that I can never do enough to ensure payment fromthese customers. No matter how attentiveI amto my customers' needs, and no matter how awesome the design and prototypes function, all-to-often it seems that they still want to "stiff" me. When the job is complete, they try to negotiate price. Even after I get 50% down, they risk losing their inital 50% and stilltry to negotiate price (my terms are 50% down and payment of balance upon completion of work). When I ask fora bank check, they become offended. And the story goes on and on...
HOW CAN I CREATE EXPIRATION DATES ON PRO|E FILES?????? This is the big question?What if they pay me and then cancel the check (this has never happened to me, but it is only a matter of time)? How can I make it so that they have to come begging back? LOL!!!
Passwords are okay, but still not fullproof enough. If I could set a1 weekexpiration date on files untilthe customers'payments clear, then that would be great. Furthermore, I either need to restrict the ability to copy the files, or clone the expiration dates and/or passwords with any copies of those files.
Any ideas???
By the way, this is not a huge problem; however, it is bothersome enough to inquire about the possiblities and options. I don't want to have to take customers to small claims court. This is a complete waste of time. Judgements against my customers are easy, but collections are still nearly impossible.
I never have these problems with corporate customers. I come from corporate America, and my corporate customers are very professional in the way they process my quotes, purchase orders, etc.

Sincerely,
Neal Rosenblum
Geometrix Engineering, Inc.
201 N. 13th Avenue
Hollywood, FL 33019
Ph: 954-920-2049
Fax: 954-920-9574
Cell: 954-649-9399
neal@geometrixeng.c
wfalco
15-Moonstone
(To:NEALROSENBLUM)

Regards, Brent DrysdaleBrent,

I am on board with your devious righteousness.

Wayne

Hello Neal,

If you are using Wildfire 4.0, have you considered using rights-management to persistently set, yet dynamically alter both access to and permission levels for content, without the need to redistribute anything?

Seems like it would fulfill the need nicely.

- Mark

Okay, I am going to give my opinion on this topic as I am also an
independent contractor / consultant. Besides, most of my business is
currently with SolidWorks clients as it seems fewer potential Pro-E clients
are using independent contractors at the moment. Not sure if this is a
result of the economy, fewer small businesses / start-ups are using Pro-E as
their main CAD system, or both.



So far, I have never not had a client pay me yet for my work, although I
have heard plenty of stories from other small consulting companies where
this has happened. The issue I have experienced with some clients is a
disagreement on the number of hours a project requires, so the client may
not wish to pay the full rate.



For example, I had projects that should have taken only a few weeks, but the
CAD models supplied were poorly constructed. A minor change to the CAD file
causes the whole house of cards to collapse (just like the U.S. economy), so
I have to remodel or rebuild the CAD file before I can complete the next
phase of the project. Too many parent-child feature relationships in the
model.



What has helped me is to use eDrawings, or the other possible option is a
3-D PDF file. With eDrawings, I can send the complete assembly, and drawings
to the client for review. The client can take measurements, mark-up the
files with comments, and view / rotate the 3-D assembly. Also, providing a
web demo to show the steps of your work flow can help in negotiating hours
worked when they understand the amount of work required. Especially if you
show them your model compared to the one that was provided to you. I also
recommend getting a purchase order before starting work, unless it is an
existing client with whom you trust and have a good past working
relationship.



Supplying the STEP / IGES files is a good suggestion that has previously
been mentioned. The problem is some companies are losing income from their
customers whom the sell their product to, which is why as a consultant, they
are trying reduce their cost of doing business by not paying you in full.
Perhaps a percentage / royalty on product sales could be an alternative if
they are unable pay in full. Better yet, if you have a great idea for a
product (I have not yet come up with one), create and market your own
product line.



Regards,





Chris Thompson

Appian Way Technologies LLC

www.appianwaytech.com



SolidWorks Office Premium 2007 & 2009

Pro/Engineer Wildfire 2.0 & 3.0






wfalco
15-Moonstone
(To:NEALROSENBLUM)

Regards, Brent DrysdaleChris,

All good ideas. For me....too late.

But I learned my lesson.

Wayne


I am not sure where I saw it... but I remember a tutorial about preparing
documents with Acrobat 3d. WF4 can prepare 3d pdf files but if you use an
older version you can embed 3d files in a word file and after completing
your document Acrobat 3d can convert it to a pdf file.
Your client can look at assemblies part by part, can take measurements, can
take cross sections etc.
Can you elaborate on the password protected files?

Kind regards,
Murat TOKLU
Tasar?m Müh / Design Engineer
Schneider Electric

Tel +90 232 376 71 71 (ext : 5159)
Fax +90 232 376 71 70







"Neal Rosenblum"
<neal@geometrixen <br="/> g.com> To
-
12.02.2009 00:37 cc

Subject
Please respond to [proecad] - Password Protecting
"Neal Rosenblum" and/or File Expiration
<neal@geometrixen <br="/> g.com>








All,


I am an independent mechanical design and engineering consultant. I
develop many products for entrepreneurs with the next "million" dollar
idea. It seems that I can never do enough to ensure payment from these
customers. No matter how attentive I am to my customers' needs, and no
matter how awesome the design and prototypes function, all-to-often it
seems that they still want to "stiff" me. When the job is complete, they
try to negotiate price. Even after I get 50% down, they risk losing their
inital 50% and still try to negotiate price (my terms are 50% down and
payment of balance upon completion of work). When I ask for a bank check,
they become offended. And the story goes on and on...


HOW CAN I CREATE EXPIRATION DATES ON PRO|E FILES?????? This is the big
question? What if they pay me and then cancel the check (this has never
happened to me, but it is only a matter of time)? How can I make it so
that they have to come begging back? LOL!!!


Passwords are okay, but still not fullproof enough. If I could set a 1
week expiration date on files until the customers' payments clear, then
that would be great. Furthermore, I either need to restrict the ability to
copy the files, or clone the expiration dates and/or passwords with any
copies of those files.


Any ideas???


By the way, this is not a huge problem; however, it is bothersome enough to
inquire about the possiblities and options. I don't want to have to take
customers to small claims court. This is a complete waste of time.
Judgements against my customers are easy, but collections are still nearly
impossible.


I never have these problems with corporate customers. I come from
corporate America, and my corporate customers are very professional in the
way they process my quotes, purchase orders, etc.



Sincerely,
Neal Rosenblum
Geometrix Engineering, Inc.
201 N. 13th Avenue
Hollywood, FL 33019

Neal,

This is a popular topic... and rightly so. Not only soloists, but Corps as
well, are concerned about retaining, controlling, protecting and managing
their IP. I have looked into this a little in my spare time... and found
two possible solutions that are not free. One of these, coupled with some
of the smart practices suggested by the other posters, will help you to
sleep at night. But, keep in mind that scheisters will always exist and
they will figure out ways to get you... "I am a realist, not a pessimist."

The two software based solutions I will cite are:

Adobe's 3D pdf coupled with Pro/E does offer some level of DRM (digital
rights management). This is a great solution if you are looking for
convenience and ease of use - not just for you, but the recipient also.

The other contender is Pinion Software. www.pinionsoftware.com - This
solution is my choice for locking down your data. Password / self destruct
/ specify users / specify rights / limit copy / prevent screenshots(!!!)...
I saw their booth at the World Event in Tampa 2007. You can send a native
Pro/E file to someone and completely control what they can do with it. (but
re-read the above "scheister" comment... I am sure we are all thinking of
ways to "get around it" - human nature) The downside to Pinion is that the
recipient needs to install software. I know there are some users on here
that own and use the software, as I was evaluating this probably a year ago
and learned a bit through this exploder. We have not made a purchase yet -
and for us I would lean toward the Adobe solution. But, I need to do more
research before plunking down the $$$. The cost for either as I remember it
was right around $2k...

Hope this helps a bit. A summary would be nice to see if there are other
contenders...

-Nathan

_____

The Rights Management component of Adobe LiveCycle ES can control who is
allowed to open PDF files (which contain 2D and/or 3D content) that your
business publishes, via policy configurations, and also has auditing
capabilities:


02/12/2009 08:55 AM
Please respond to
"Nathan Rollins (lists)" <->


To
"Neal Rosenblum" <->, -
cc

Subject
[proecad] - RE: Password Protecting and/or File Expiration




Neal,

This is a popular topic... and rightly so. Not only soloists, but Corps
as well, are concerned about retaining, controlling, protecting an...



































I don't have direct experience with that here, but a couple of thoughts
come to mind:

First, in WF4 PTC now offers a DRM solution for Pro|E. It's an add on
and I don't know how expensive it is. You can set a variety of
permissions and you can revoke, change or remove them at any time.
Basically, when they try to open the files, it 'phones home' to see if
they are allowed. Give folks read only permissions until they pay in
full and if they don't revoke permissions. I have no idea how good it
is.

Secondly, Acrobat 3D (I was typing this when Nathan's post came in) can
supply a similar level of control. You publish a 3D PDF and set what
they can do with it, from read only to export to IGES. I think this is
about $1,000 as a stand alone, significantly less if you're upgrading
Acrobat Standard or Pro. It can also read something like 40 native CAD
formats, so if a client sends you UG, Catia, SolidEdge, etc files you
can open them in Acrobat 3D and export them as IGES. Again, I don't
know how good it is.

Lastly, I'd make sure that your contract states that ownership of all
designs and data produced under the contract remains with you until
payment in full. Not really helpful in extracting payment, but if a
dead beat makes it big with one of your designs, send a lawyer to their
door to collect all their profits from it. You might also be able to
send cease orders to their suppliers saying they have no right to build
on your data. As you said, going to court isn't very helpful, but if
you can block their production (and their income) then I'd think you'd
have leverage to get paid.

The IGES/STEP solution is likely not going to be very effective. They
can still go into production pretty easily without native files.

Doug Schaefer
--
Doug Schaefer | Experienced Mechanical Design Engineer
LinkedIn

Hi Neal,

In Wildfire 4.0, PTC has added an optional Rights Management module that allows you to do exactly what you are asking to do. It allows you to give variable levels of permissions (Open, Print, Save, Copy) to named individuals, and to expire those permissions anytime you'd like. If your customer won't pay you, you can turn off his access to your work.

http://www.ptc.com/products/proengineer/rights-management-extension

Don

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