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We currenly maintain a small number of SGML documents; approximate two
dozen, using 14 custom DTDs. For the past ten years these have been
exclusively viewed on-line; first using an Adept Viewer and now we save
to XML and post-process using Perl scripts to clean them up and view in
MSIE browser.

During document maiintenenece, the authors see the equivelent output
with custom FOSIs (14). Originally, paper was used, so our FOSIs
still.retain most of the pagination logic. By the way, we use an old
version of Epic {5.2}. Quite difficult for us to upgrade more than once
every 4-5 years when,for us, if it a'nit relyy broken then, leave it
alone (yes we pay annual maint).

The point of this was to set up my two cents worth on the discussions I
have been following and ask a question.


If PTC were to drop support for something so vital and integrated as
FOSIs from future revisions then,come the day I must upgrade we would
seriously need to look at other options, my management already thinks
Adept Editot is a bit pricey.


I am being asked to reactivate the ability to print (argh) and need
advice on what path is best, or possible, given our custom DTDs/FOSIs?
The output will be PDF?

Robert Paisley
Level 5 S/W Engineer
The problem with being punctual is that nobody's there to appreciate it.
-- Franklin P. Jones


I think it depends upon how many users you have and how often and how many pages they will be composing PDF output.
If the numbers are small, Print Composer and Adobe Acrobat Distiller is probably the best quality output. You can use concurrent Print Composer licenses to mitigate the license cost. You can probably buy half or less the number of concurrent licenses than the number of users you have. The same would not apply for Acrobat Distiller. Every user would have to have a copy.
You might be able to run Distiller on a server or buy a server version of Acrobat Distiller (very expensive, I think) and queue your PDF jobs that way.
If you need to go to PE, I don't know much about that.


If you already have an SGML and FOSI print setup, bringing that up to date should be much cheaper than trying to start from zero to reinvent your documents with an XSL stylesheet. Level of difficulty will depend on what you mean by:
"... paper was used, so our FOSIs still.retain most of the pagination logic...".

Also, how complex the formatting will be and how much FOSI code you have discarded are large factors.

If you had a setup where the target was paper you can make the target into PDF just by adding at least one print composer option (the node locked license is about 1/4 the cost of the concurrent license.) and one copy of Adobe Acrobat (distiller) for each user that must make PDF. If you indeed have a "small number of SGML documents" you can probably get allow with one PC set up to produce the PDFcreated by however many authors are using Arbortext. Editor

If you are on Unix you must have concurrent licenses and Adrobat distiller server which I have heard is very expensive.

Figure out where you are:
* Can you print acceptable paper output now?
* If not, how much work to recover FOSI code that has been removed since the last time that you could make acceptable paper output?
* Do you have the skill set to reinvent any FOSI code that is not revocerable?

Post some more details and you might get some more help.


P.S.Arbortext has not announced that they are discontinuing FOSI support in their products. They are just not officialy committing to support any existing version for more than a three-year period. That makes it difficult for those of us that have to project our process for the next 10 years.
\ / Andy Esslinger LM Aero Tech Order Data
_____-/\-_____ (817) 279-0442 1 Lockheed Blvd, Mail Zone 4285
\_\/_/ (817) 777-3047 Fort Worth, TX 76108

Too pricey? Maybe in the old SGML days, but since XML I beleive things are much closer. FrameMaker will cost new about the same as Arbortext. These days XMetaL is now more expensive than Arbortext. As far as printing PDF you need to look at the required capabilities. What features do you require in your PDF/paper production? How complicated is your presentation? Can XSL/FO handle the requirements? I'm only aware of 1 other FOSI supporting tool and that is from Datalogics. Your FOSIs may/may not work with that tool. With XSL-FO you have a variety of composition tools you could work with at various price points. Next step would be full typsetting capabilities with something like APP or XPP from Xy. I suppose another possiblity would be to use something like Frame for final pagenation as well - I don't recommend using it for editing of your source though. ..dan --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Danny Vint Specializing in Panoramic Images of California and the West

The production of the XML display (with it's XSL) will be separate from
the Print operation; printing will be done from the DTD/FOS version.
And, this is a very occasional operation (about once a month) so the
Print Composer option sounds ideal (was already leaning that way). We
are on Unix with these documents but, I may migrate this part of our
operation to the WINTEL platform,; we already use it for some other
document types.

As to the last questions, I maintain the fosi but, haven't needed to
touch it for several years for anything serious - dusting off the memory
dump files. I work in about 12 different languages so I've built
swappable portions of my brain to keep the clutter down ;).
I'll get my peeps to hook a copy of PC and try it out (sorry, with 6
kids odd stuff creeps into the lang).

To everyone else - Thanks! this group always was/is the best for caring
and help.

Motto for today "In spite of...we preserve".

Robert Paisley

"Boring Jobs Are Still Jobs -- So Be Thankful"
--Daily Telegraph (London)

OK, I give. I know PTC has a very ... convoluted .. way of offering the
Arbortext Products (like putting isoDraw into the list). But, for the
life of me I cannot find any reference to "Print Composer". Has it been
rebranded to "Arbortext Publishing engine"? That one sounds like much
more than I require.

Robert G. Paisley
"Experience is that marvelous thing that enables you to recognize a
mistake when you make it again."
-Franklin P. Jones

No. It's still Print Composer. When you install Arbortext Editor 5.4, you need to do a Custom Installation and select Print Composer from the menu. It's still called that on the menu.

Technically, it is a "separately-licensed feature", not a product.

Embedded, available, licensable but, not necessarily advertised. Thanks.

Robert G. Paisley
"It's only broke if someone notices it."
- Tresa Spencer

Reading my original response- it's probably not clear. Every installation disk or setup.exe, etc. should include Print Composer. You just need to select it from the Custom Installation menu and purchase a separate license for it. When you give them your server code, you need to specify to PTC that you want a license key for both Arbortext Editor and Print Composer. When installing a fixed, locked license we have always just installed one key for both. However, I think you can buy the license key separately and install it separately from the Editor key.

I have my license guy on it. He says it generally takes about 3 days to
reach a human at PTC and no one seems to like to answer e-mail requests
for quotes. Sad way to run a business.

Robert G. Paisley
One of the symptoms of an approaching
nervous breakdown is the belief that one's
work is terribly important.
- Bertrand Russell

Last I heard PTC only supports this for existing licenses, they don't promote it as a product. You may be able to get a license, but my guess is they will sell you Styler instead. That has the same local print composition capabiltites plus Styler stuff. ..dan --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Danny Vint Specializing in Panoramic Images of California and the West

The last time I checked, a standalone Print Composer license cost about twice as much as an Arbortext Editor license. I wonder how much Styler costs?

Maybe, but Print Composer is embedded as a choice in every installation of Arbortext Editor, including 5.4. How could they not sell you a license for something everyone can install?

It will install, but it won't actually run, until you get a license (locked or concurrent).

Been there, done that...

Steve Thompson

We have a rough quote of $400 with $70/yr maintenance.
PTC said it is available on UNIX and WINTEL in all versions from ours
(5.2) and on.

Robert Paisley
Level 5 S/W Engineer ; Northrop-Grumman

If the only tool you have is a hammer,
you tend to see every problem as a nail."
-- Abraham Maslow, American psychologist


That sounds like the "Locked" license price. Good for one box only. If
need to share it over a network, you'll want a concurrent or network
which is pricier. We made the mistake of not asking about that, ended
up with
a locked license, and they wouldn't take it back. Really! We're now
hoping to
be able to convert it when we buy some additional licenses.

Be sure to order the one you need.


The PDF files are only generated about once a month once we get into a
regular process. Probably get 1-3 depending on need so, locked is fine.
But, I realize surprises show up so thanks for the head up.

Robert Paisley

Curiosity is one of the permanent
and certain characteristics
of a vigorous mind." --Samuel Johnson

It also includes a copy of Architect and Styler which you can only use with a license. ..dan --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Danny Vint Specializing in Panoramic Images of California and the West

We use architecte
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