Question for ACL experts

ptc-1908075 · ‎Apr 18, 2012

The question of how to ensure the last page of a FOSI-formatted document is a verso page keeps coming up, so I decided to add it to my book. However, supporting this in a FOSI using system-func to call a function at the end of the document to determine if the last page number is odd or even may or may not work, depending on the DTD structure, FOSI coding, and software version.

An alternative that should always work is to use a batch process that utilizes ACL scripting and a FOSI-generated external file. I've attached PDF of the relevant pages from my book.

ACL experts: Why is edit -current needed here? It seems like the force option should be all that's needed, but edit -current is necessary for the format/preview/print at the end to add the verso page when $addpage=yes. What am I missing?

Thanks!

Suzanne Napoleon
www.FOSIexpert.com
"WYSIWYG is last-century technology!"

ClayHelberg · ‎Apr 18, 2012

Hi Suzanne--

I'm not 100% sure, but I suspect this has to do with caching of
intermediate results. The "edit -current" command will essentially cause
the document to be reloaded from disk, so that the next format operation
is a fresh one. I think that if you have already formatted a document,
and you format it again without making any changes to the document,
Arbortext will skip some steps in the formatting and use cached files
instead.

--Clay

Clay Helberg

Senior Consultant

TerraXML

DavidS.Taylor · ‎Apr 18, 2012

Hi Suzanne,

I'm curious. Under what circumstances would it be necessary or important to force the document to end on the verso page? Is this just cosmetic?

I often have a document ending on the recto page but never think twice about it. After the document leaves my hands, the printer puts it through their imposition software to arrange the pagination according to the press paper size. This deals with any blank verso page requirements.

In a document distributed in electronic format would the reader care about that final verso page?

Cheers,

David

David S. Taylor

Project Manager, Production and Marketing
Codes and Evaluations | NRC Construction Portfolio
National Research Council Canada
Building M-23A, Room 239 | 1200 Montreal Road | Ottawa, ON | K1A 0R6
Telephone: +1.613.990.2731 | Fax: +1.613.952.4040
David.S.Taylor@nrc-cnrc.gc.ca<">mailto:David.S.Taylor@nrc-cnrc.gc.ca>

naglists · ‎Apr 18, 2012

<e-i-c gi="lawyer" context="liability">

On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 12:34 PM, Taylor, David S. <
david.s.taylor@nrc-cnrc.gc.ca> wrote:

> Hi Suzanne,****
>
> ** **
>
> I'm curious. Under what circumstances would it be necessary or important
> to force the document to end on the verso page? Is this just cosmetic?***
> *
>
> ** **
>
> I often have a document ending on the recto page but never think twice
> about it. After the document leaves my hands, the printer puts it through
> their imposition software to arrange the pagination according to the press
> paper size. This deals with any blank verso page requirements.****
>
> ** **
>
> In a document distributed in electronic format would the reader care about
> that final verso page?****
>
> ** **
>
> Cheers,****
>
> ** **
>
> David****
>
> ** **
>
> *David S. Taylor*
>
>
> *Project Manager, *Production and Marketing
> Codes and Evaluations | *NRC Construction Portfolio*
> National Research Council Canada
> Building M-23A, Room 239 | 1200 Montreal Road | Ottawa, ON | K1A 0R6****
>
> Telephone: +1.613.990.2731 | Fax: +1.613.952.4040
> David.S.Taylor@nrc-cnrc.gc.ca****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Suzanne Napoleon [
>
> ** **
>
> ** **

jsillari · ‎Apr 18, 2012

MIL-SPECs and other standards have paper output requirements which mandate consistent recto-verso relationships (including the ubiquitous "This page intentionally left blank" message).

John Sillari
Chief Technologist
Dayton T. Brown, Inc.

ebenton · ‎Apr 18, 2012

Many military customers are *very* persnickety about page layout in their manuals. For instance, one of the types of manuals that we produce, *requires* that the last page of one of their manuals is a verso page with specific content. This requirement is documented in a government military requirement.
Users dealing with manuals involving weapon systems and many other technical subjects are *extremely* conscious of page content and number of pages. If a book of the same revision level is printed out on one date and then again on a different date, they better both have *exactly* the same number of pages and *exactly* the same page content, or there will be hell to pay.

AndyEsslinger · ‎Apr 18, 2012

David,

Our requirement is that we furnish a PDF or PostScript document to Defense Logistics Agency Document Services (DLADS) (previously Document Automation & Production Service (DAPS) and that each document has an even number of pages:
Rationale:

1. A document must have an even number of pages because each sheet has a front and a back. If the document has an odd number of pages, then something is missing.

2. Some printing machines do not print and eject the last page if a blank is not in the print deck. It hangs until another deck is started then it prints as the first page or outputs a blank page as the first page of the next deck.

I don't care about why; I just know that it is a requirement that I have been living with since the 1980's (which is how long I have been dealing with military documents and MIL-specs. I do remember when the "new" laser printers used to require the user to send a blank page to force the last page of a two-sided document to print.

-Andy
\ / Andy Esslinger LM Aero - Tech Order Data
_____-/\-_____ (817) 279-0442 1 Lockheed Blvd, MZ 4285
\_\/_/ (817) 777 3047 Fort Worth, TX 76108-3916

DavidS.Taylor · ‎Apr 18, 2012

Hi Ed,

Yes, I'm aware of the needs of military and technical publications, I did work on aircraft manuals back some years ago.

I took from Suzanne's question that the need was to force a verso page with no content. I have done this in the past by putting some text on the final page and setting the font colour to white, not elegant but it got the manual out the door. In that case the client wanted to concatenate three documents into one manual. This was before the adoption of imposition software by most commercial printers, I wouldn't bother creating 'white' text today.

In reality, if a document's content does end on the recto page, it is impossible to print that page without ending up with a blank reverse side, 'pages' versus 'sheets' from a printing perspective.

Anyway, it's good to know the military world hasn't let down its standards, thankfully my current employer doesn't have such stringent specifications and commercial printing has advanced in many areas. Sending PDF files for printing is an improvement over the old Postscript to typesetter to plate maker to printer process of the early '90s.

Cheers,

David

ptc-1908075 · ‎Apr 18, 2012

Hi Clay,

I think you're right. It occurred to me to peruse the documentation a little, and I think it's safe to say that edit -current is necessary to alert the formatting engine that something has changed. Otherwise, it uses cached formatting files that do not reflect any changes.

Thanks!
Suzanne