Exploder Rules, Round Deux

[rsnider]

Gee, I go out of town for a couple days, and see what happens?? 🙂

Thanks for everyone who responded on the rules topic. I am reading
through the responses but I think the gist of the discussion is:

1. People agree that everyone ought to follow the rules. My main
concern in making the posting was to remind people to not post the
off-topic messages--these really get annoying, even if they are
well-intentioned.

2. We have differing thoughts on the posting guidelines. Personally,
I don't mind if everything gets posted to the exploder because everyone
gets a copy of the discussion that way. As I stated, item four in my
original posting is more of a suggestion rather than a hard rule.

However, I also understand that people get frustrated when they get a
full inbox of exploder messages. I have a filter setup on my account
to route all of the discussions into a folder so I don't lose them. I
highly recommend using filters with your Outlook (or other client)
software--this is a really useful technique for screening exploder
messages, important messages from your co-workers/supervisors, junk
mail, etc.

Thanks also for the various suggestions on improving the existing rules
to make message identification/sorting easier for everyone, especially
me 🙂

3. If a change to rules is needed, it ought to be voted on by the
entire exploder community. I am open to this idea and with the portal,
we now have the means to conduct such a vote fairly.

4. Perhaps we could look at a different technology to manage the
discussions. I would prefer to use a web-based interface that would
allow people to see the original question and the follow-up responses.
The major difficulty I've had in implementing this has been cultural,
not technological. There are still quite a few people that do not have
web access at work. Consequently, we would exclude those people from
participation with such a system.

Perhaps it's time to take a survey on this issue to find out if this is
really still a problem for a significant number of members. BTW, if
anyone knows of a bulletin board/discussion software that supports BOTH
reading AND posting of messages, please let me know.

I'm getting on another plane now, so I'll check my e-mail again once I
land. Thanks again for your feedback!

Regards,
Rick



==

Rick Snider
Executive Director, PTC/USER

[ptc-437311]

Rick,

Not to belabor the point, but don't you already have one in place with
newsgroups on MS Outlook Express? From what I've been reading this meets
the needs of everyone on the exploder without limiting those that don't have
Internet access. Essentially, the exploder is already a bulletin board,
and it's a hassle to have to login to it everytime I want to see whats going
on. It's much easier, from my standpoint, to just start OE and synchronize
the newsgroup to get the latest postings.


--
Steve M. Wilson
Sr. ME
Bivio Networks
Pleasanton, CA

"Rick Snider" <-> wrote in message news:76513@model...
>
> Gee, I go out of town for a couple days, and see what happens?? 🙂
>
> Thanks for everyone who responded on the rules topic. I am reading
> through the responses but I think the gist of the discussion is:
>
> 1. People agree that everyone ought to follow the rules. My main concern
> in making the posting was to remind people to not post the off-topic
> messages--these really get annoying, even if they are well-intentioned.
>
> 2. We have differing thoughts on the posting guidelines. Personally, I
> don't mind if everything gets posted to the exploder because everyone gets
> a copy of the discussion that way. As I stated, item four in my original
> posting is more of a suggestion rather than a hard rule.
>
> However, I also understand that people get frustrated when they get a full
> inbox of exploder messages. I have a filter setup on my account to route
> all of the discussions into a folder so I don't lose them. I highly
> recommend using filters with your Outlook (or other client) software--this
> is a really useful technique for screening exploder messages, important
> messages from your co-workers/supervisors, junk mail, etc.
>
> Thanks also for the various suggestions on improving the existing rules to
> make message identification/sorting easier for everyone, especially me 🙂
>
> 3. If a change to rules is needed, it ought to be voted on by the entire
> exploder community. I am open to this idea and with the portal, we now
> have the means to conduct such a vote fairly.
>
> 4. Perhaps we could look at a different technology to manage the
> discussions. I would prefer to use a web-based interface that would allow
> people to see the original question and the follow-up responses. The
> major difficulty I've had in implementing this has been cultural, not
> technological. There are still quite a few people that do not have web
> access at work. Consequently, we would exclude those people from
> participation with such a system.
>
> Perhaps it's time to take a survey on this issue to find out if this is
> really still a problem for a significant number of members. BTW, if
> anyone knows of a bulletin board/discussion software that supports BOTH
> reading AND posting of messages, please let me know.
>
> I'm getting on another plane now, so I'll check my e-mail again once I
> land. Thanks again for your feedback!
>
> Regards,
> Rick
>
>
>
> ==
>
> Rick Snider
> Executive Director, PTC/USER

[dakeb]

I can't access prouser on newsgroups, our newserver restricts access to only
a few selected venues.

[Ted]

Hi all,

The only thing I object to in the exploder group are the solicitations
for business and especially the job postings. It was hard enough to get
the Boss to give me web access as it is. If he sees job postings as
part of this exploder group, well he wouldn't be impressed. There are a
lot of other avenues on the web to find Pro/E jobs if needed. Keep the
exploder to relevant technical issues.

Regards

Ted

[sdkellysdaa]

While I do not object to job postings, I fully agree that it can cause
problems with some employers and therefore should probably not be done on
the exploder. Also; though I personally don't really object to very
limited, directly relevant commercial postings or product announcements;
it's always going to be a grey area to everyone how much, if any, is
appropriate. Permitting any commercial posts at all is a slippery slope at
best and will almost surely lead to bad feelings, unfairness (real or
perceived) and a lot more annoyed members than satisfied ones. Sadly, the
only serviceable solution I can see is to completely ban both.

One of the other technical exploders like this one that I am on does permit
the above mentioned items as well as having all replies go to the whole
list by default. We all behave ourselves very well, even the vendors, (who
make completely relevant commercial posts no more than once per month). We
all get along there swimmingly so it is clear that it can work, but it's
suitable for discussion (not argument or flame) what would work best here.

S

<snip>
>...the solicitations for business and especially
>the job postings. It was hard enough to get the
>Boss to give me web access as it is. If he sees
>job postings as part of this exploder group, well
>he wouldn't be impressed.
<snip>

[dgschaefer]

Rick,

Please, please, please don't take it to the web as a BB.  There are already a couple of those (MCAD Central being one) and I never visit them.  If the exploder went that route, I would likely never visit it either.  Think about it, unless I need something (question to ask), why would I spend time to go there?  Am I likely to go just to see if there are questions that I can answer?  No, not likely.  So the result would be, I think, lots of questions and fewer answers.  On the other hand, if your question arrives at my desk (through email) then I'm more likely to take a minute to respond.  Besides, I imagine our bosses would frown a little more on us browsing the web than checking our email.

As far as response preference, I say change the settings to default to the group.  Requesting folks not to respond to the group and to post a summary isn't working because it's too easy to ignore (and makes sense to ignore to some).  Yeah, we'll get more email, but we'll get the answers and it won't depend on someone else deciding whether it's valuable enough to send to everyone or not.  Nor will we have to wait for a summary that may not come.  I think that's probably something you can set in Lyris.

Doug Schaefer

[unknown1]

Doug,

I FULLY agree with your BB issue. I have Outlook set to inform me if there
is a message from the list. I usually take the 5-10 seconds and select to
read it...unless I am in the middle of something that I don't want to
interrupt.

Steve G

[PeterBrown]

Regarding the job postings on the exploder, don't get rid of them.

I've hired 4 great people in my department over the past 18 months and every
one of them came from ads posted on the Exploder. I also have put the job
postings on ProE Central and a couple of other free places. For some
reason, the best applicants came from the Network newsgroup - don't ask me
why. The only annoyance has been from headhunters trying to sell me their
services when I explicitly state that I don't want to hear from them.


--
Regards,
Peter Brown
NC Programming Manager
Jarvis Products Corp

http://www.jarvisproducts.com



"Rick Snider" <-> wrote in message news:76513@model...
>
> Gee, I go out of town for a couple days, and see what happens?? 🙂
>
> Thanks for everyone who responded on the rules topic. I am reading
> through the responses but I think the gist of the discussion is:
>
> 1. People agree that everyone ought to follow the rules. My main concern
> in making the posting was to remind people to not post the off-topic
> messages--these really get annoying, even if they are well-intentioned.
>
> 2. We have differing thoughts on the posting guidelines. Personally, I
> don't mind if everything gets posted to the exploder because everyone gets
> a copy of the discussion that way. As I stated, item four in my original
> posting is more of a suggestion rather than a hard rule.
>
> However, I also understand that people get frustrated when they get a full
> inbox of exploder messages. I have a filter setup on my account to route
> all of the discussions into a folder so I don't lose them. I highly
> recommend using filters with your Outlook (or other client) software--this
> is a really useful technique for screening exploder messages, important
> messages from your co-workers/supervisors, junk mail, etc.
>
> Thanks also for the various suggestions on improving the existing rules to
> make message identification/sorting easier for everyone, especially me 🙂
>
> 3. If a change to rules is needed, it ought to be voted on by the entire
> exploder community. I am open to this idea and with the portal, we now
> have the means to conduct such a vote fairly.
>
> 4. Perhaps we could look at a different technology to manage the
> discussions. I would prefer to use a web-based interface that would allow
> people to see the original question and the follow-up responses. The
> major difficulty I've had in implementing this has been cultural, not
> technological. There are still quite a few people that do not have web
> access at work. Consequently, we would exclude those people from
> participation with such a system.
>
> Perhaps it's time to take a survey on this issue to find out if this is
> really still a problem for a significant number of members. BTW, if
> anyone knows of a bulletin board/discussion software that supports BOTH
> reading AND posting of messages, please let me know.
>
> I'm getting on another plane now, so I'll check my e-mail again once I
> land. Thanks again for your feedback!
>
> Regards,
> Rick
>
>
>
> ==
>
> Rick Snider
> Executive Director, PTC/USER

[unknown1]

Why not a separate list for job postings. That way I can choose to not be a part of it.

Mike Cavins
Design Engineer
Applicators Development
The Scotts Company

[big_jim]

Peter;
I almost considered applying to be number 5, but I like my location
better. 🙂 While I can see the potential concern of employers having job
postings on a venue they pay for the recent rash of postings has been
encouraging. The market must be improving ...$$ 🙂 It should be pointed out
that the exploder does offer a location for those postings, I believe it is
on the network listing, and they should be kept there.
I would vote to se the exploder stay the same as is only with
encouraged postings to all rather than just the one requesting help. I have
been given many ideas from the answers to someone else's questions, this
site is an invaluable help. I almost think Rui, Doug and a few others should
receive a fee for all their help 🙂 they're my heroes!

[nicfre1]

Isn't there a separate posting? The network exploder? Maybe someone can
clarify, but I thought the network exploder was setup for job postings and
related emails. But the problem is, a few individuals are posting jobs on
say for instance the model exploder. But since I have been a member, I have
not seen many on the model exploder. Again, you are never going to keep
everyone on the same page as far as what they should be posting and where
they should be posting it. I would think we could just delete the one or two
job postings that aren't in the network exploder we occasionally recieve.

Nick

[unknown1]

There already is a separate list for job postings.. It's called the
NETWORK exploder.

[ptc-18880]

Isn't that what 'network' is for?


Vaughn

[cfly]

There already is one - that's what the Network discussion list is for.

[dgschaefer]

That's how it's set up.  No advertisments or job postings on all lists EXCEPT the 'network' list.  It's only for job postings and service advertisements.

Doug Schaefer

[dakeb]

Wonder if Rick can set up a filter to prevent job postings getting onto
model and prouser, and terminate the offenders accounts if they persevere?

[unknown1]

Please drop it......

[muroslav]

there alreadt is its called "network"



>>> "Cavins, Mike" <mike.cavins@scotts.com> 11/17/2004 10:02:27 AM >>>
Why not a separate list for job postings. That way I can choose to not
be a part of it.

Mike Cavins
Design Engineer
Applicators Development
The Scotts Company

[ptc-593619]

My proposal would be thus:-
Eliminate the summaries, use real time reply answers to the list. Yes , I realize that this creates a lot of e-mails but we do have a delete button! Remove the job postings from Network and create a specific exploder for them so people can sign up or not as they see fit. Then blast anyone mis-using the exploder on a one warning and then you're out basis. Humor, of course, excepted.
BTW didn't this all arise not from job posting but from the Indian holiday greeting, in which case - Happy April 23rd

Richard A. Black
tel: 269 781-0539
-
http://www.automotive.eaton.com

[unknown1]

Correction .. Network is for jobs and anything else you want to sell or
advertise....

Is that better?

😛

[ptc-353751]

Out of curiosity, do many people subscribe to that one ?? Don't answer
that, of course.... If dozens of people say they don't, that's all the
more reason for the headhunters to continue sending them to 'user' or
'model' because they *know* lots of people subscribe to it.

Hall






"Carol Fly" <->
Sent by: -
11/17/2004 10:22 AM
Please respond to "Carol Fly"

[ptc-84595]

Rick, I have a great idea! Could we have a seperate list for any
discussion about Lists????
we could title the list "Exploder Rules, Round Deux" My trash can has
at least a weeks worth
we could start it with.........................








Cavins, Mike wrote:

>Why not a separate list for job postings. That way I can choose to not be a part of it.
>
>Mike Cavins
>Design Engineer
>Applicators Development
>The Scotts Company
>

[DerekH]

I second that.
A suggestion...
If you have recommendations, opinions, or comments concerning this topic please send them to Rick.
He is the one asking for them, not the entire user community.

Thank you.

[unknown1]

That spate of postings about the network list in response to one
question is the exact reason to reply to the poster instead of the
group. I must admit, I had asked Rick a month or so ago (Sept. 30th, to
be exact) about the protocol related to replying to posts.

My suggestion is that if you don't have more than a sentence or two for
a reply, then it shouldn't go to the group but to the individual. What
tires me is wading through 20 e-mails, several of which are answers like
"use a round" or "boundary surface" or a picture of a solution but with
no explanation on how to get there. These types of answers do not
contribute anything to the solution of the problem--for either the
original poster or those otherwise interested. Thoughtful, well-written
responses to the group are great, but it seems half of what I see don't
fall in that category.

(Another reason I prefer to reply to the original poster is so I don't
look like an idiot in my response. If I say a bunch of stuff that
doesn't make sense, it's only one person that I have to clarify myself
with, instead of everyone.)

I think it would be great to see a forum or BB for these groups, with
the option of getting new posts e-mailed. If such a thing can exist
easily, I'm not sure. I know that the few forums that I do frequent
(computer hardware sites) are very well organized and moderated, and
easy to get to. Yeah, maybe your boss won't like to see you sitting in
front of a web browser instead of Outlook, but that's just something
you'd have to work out with him or her.

Caleb Coburn
Mechanical Engineer
Roche Diagnostics

[muroslav]

i second that too



>>> Scott Myers29 <-> 11/17/2004 11:54:07 AM >>>
Rick, I have a great idea! Could we have a seperate list for any
discussion about Lists????
we could title the list "Exploder Rules, Round Deux" My trash can has

at least a weeks worth
we could start it with.........................








Cavins, Mike wrote:

>Why not a separate list for job postings. That way I can choose to
not be a part of it.
>
>Mike Cavins
>Design Engineer
>Applicators Development
>The Scotts Company
>