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The Mail Exploder is at risk, Speak up NOW!

davehaigh
10-Marble

The Mail Exploder is at risk, Speak up NOW!


The shocking news from day one of PTC Live is that PTC want's to "absorb" the mail exploder into their on-line communities forum.http://communities.ptc.com you'll see the announcement of this at the top of the page.



I went up to Ron and Dan durning the break and said what are you doing to my mail exploder. The answer was there was pressure to only have one source of communication instead of some stuff on the forum and some via the mail exploder. They are having discussions next week on how to transfer the data from ptcuser to the ptc site.



I asked if I was still going to get emails and the answer was no.



I'm sorry but this is killing the goose that laid the golden egg.



Make no mistake, if you don't raise your voice on this issue the mail exploder will disappear.



Dave Haigh


119 REPLIES 119
gdt
1-Newbie
1-Newbie
(To:davehaigh)

Hi everyone....
I was very disappointed when you stopped printing the magazines years ago but understood. The email exploder all though can be a challenge is a mainstay for me for many reasons and some of them reasons are just to read something that challenges the mind during a work day in which it isnt!. I am not allowed on any type of social site PTC included. I am allowed one personal email site to look at several times a day especially at break and lunch. Do not take that away!
Just my piece about this subject.

To: -
Subject: [proecad] - The Mail Exploder is at risk, Speak up NOW!
From: -
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2014 19:52:34 -0700



The shocking news from day one of PTC Live is that PTC want's to "absorb" the mail exploder into their on-line communities forum.

Leave it to PTC management to want to take away another really useful resource to users.
Don't do it, PTC.

Jeff Dayman
To: -
Subject: [proecad] - The Mail Exploder is at risk, Speak up NOW!
From: -
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2014 19:52:34 -0700



The shocking news from day one of PTC Live is that PTC want's to "absorb" the mail exploder into their on-line communities forum.

I secnd this. Do not take away the email exploder list. This is the main way I communicate, get info and respond to questions. Don Anderson


Sent on a Sprint Samsung Galaxy S® III

cdown
4-Participant
(To:davehaigh)

This should not be allowed to happen, the exploder is one of the best sources for help and information I've ever used!!!

Looks like its time to form a new community.



On Jun 17, 2014, at 7:00 AM, "Colin Down" <-<<a style="COLOR:" blue;=" text-decoration:=" underline&quot;=" target="_BLANK" href="mailto:-">>">mailto:->> wrote:


This should not be allowed to happen, the exploder is one of the best sources for help and information I've ever used!!!
msteffke
12-Amethyst
(To:davehaigh)

The strength of the forum is the email exploder. It's really not on my to-do list to go online into a forum randomly seeking to help people outside of my company. But if something pops into my mailbox and someone has a problem where I might be to help, well there you go. Secondly, it's the pure speed of responses from the email exploder. I believe the last time I posted a question I had an answer back in a minute or two. Wasn't there an MCAD Central once? I think it lost out to the email exploder.

Mark Steffke

As one person who is agnostic about CAD software in general and at times critical of PTC software specifically, I can see the 'absorption' of the exploder as a practical way to control their message. I really like the free exchange of comments, criticisms and ideas posted by the exploder, and can see this being 'sanitized' by PTC.

If they do this, it will be yet another great idea 'absorbed' by PTC that will come out the other end similar to the way cows process meadows.

Quite often, information on the exploder is the best and sometimes the only way to understand the software capabilities. Instructors at training sessions can only teach the book, and many times cannot extrapolate specific use cases, and the callbacks I get from tech support usually do not result solutions to my issues.

I would suggest to PTC that they take a really forward looking position, and let the users contribute to an 'open' help and example filesystem. Without the exploder in its current form, the software is a lot less useful.

My personal opinion.


Christopher F. Gosnell

FPD Company
124 Hidden Valley Road
McMurray, PA 15317

Hi folks
My first reaction to this news was head shaking... Similar to how I felt about PTC/User Event rebranding to PTC Live Global. Ron had a slight Freudian slip as he introduced their segment, announcing they were with "PTC... um PTC/User" - and that's the way things are heading.
I will make my thoughts known, but it sounds like the decision was already made.
Regards
Edwin

ps: come see me at "Million to One", or "License tracking for 1000 users" presentations this week 😉
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DonSenchuk
5-Regular Member
(To:davehaigh)

I wish I could say I'm shocked, but the truth is I'm shocked they didn't move to kill it much sooner than this. PTC's apparent philosophy is to make the transfer of information more difficult than it needs to be.


When I contact PTC Tech Support they will contact me within 24 hours (generally). Then I have to explain what the problem is again (the one I just typed out in minute detail). Then they need to see it through a WebEx session. I think my average solution time is around 4 days from tech support.


When I contact the exploder, the contact and solution time is significantly quicker. Sometimes minutes and sometimes as logn as hours. In the rare cases where the exploder doesn't have an answer or comment, then I know it's something major. Contact and solution time is so much quicker that it beggars the mind they think closing this down is a good thing.


I should say it's significantly quicker if I don't already have the solution simply from emails I've saved that I felt may come in handy some day. This, of course, speaks to seeing people talking about something and realizing, 'Hey, I never thought about that. What a great idea!' Something we're apparently going to be stripped of.


For a long time I've thought that PTC intentionally provides less than amazing support specifically because someone internal has it in their mind that forcing customers to rely on their tech support helps justify the maintenance costs. I find it difficult to come up with an innocent explanation for documentation that says, in effect "run this query from windchill shell" and then doesn't expand on what it is you're doing, what the follow up prompts are really asking for or how to trouble shoot it yourself. Or documentation that says "before doing this action you must first do X", and then providing scant resources for actually doing "X". The worst part of this is when you're on the phone with tech support and they say "please hold on for just one minute" while you know they're digging into documentation that shows how to solve the problem step-by-step-by-step. Documentation that can't be found by the users because ... why? Because keeping it obscure or obtuse makes customers rely on tech support, justifying maintenance costs.


This less than amazing support they [intentionally?] provide is where the exploder steps up to the plate and delivers. Sometimes a base hit, sometimes a double, and sometimes a home run.


Based on this new announcement I'm sticking with 'PTC's goal is to actively hinder the user community for their software.'



In Reply to David Haigh:




The shocking news from day one of PTC Live is that PTC want's to "absorb" the mail exploder into their on-line communities forum.http://communities.ptc.com you'll see the announcement of this at the top of the page.



I went up to Ron and Dan durning the break and said what are you doing to my mail exploder. The answer was there was pressure to only have one source of communication instead of some stuff on the forum and some via the mail exploder. They are having discussions next week on how to transfer the data from ptcuser to the ptc site.



I asked if I was still going to get emails and the answer was no.



I'm sorry but this is killing the goose that laid the golden egg.



Make no mistake, if you don't raise your voice on this issue the mail exploder will disappear.



Dave Haigh



I have been worried about this from day one when PTC took the controls of PTC/User. They specifically said they would leave it alone and not mess up a good thing. I do occasionally participate in the PTC community but in my opinion it is nowhere near equivalent. The exploder is in my opinion the ideal site. When I ask a question, it is on the exploder. I am more likely to answer a question on the exploder also simply because I can do it via email.

It's been my go to place since 1997 or 1998. I know some of you guys have been on it a LOT longer too. If PTC removes PTC/User, I will definitely discontinue use of the PTC community site. I will either find another resource or do without. I absolutely will not support this decision in any way, shape or form.

Thanks PTC for nothing.

I say we open a forum at reddit... /r/creo

Christopher F. Gosnell

FPD Company
124 Hidden Valley Road
McMurray, PA 15317

If PTC wants to reduce redundancy, then why not shut down PTC community?
It is my impression far more people use the PTC/User exploder.


And I concur with others that the ability of the exploder to to send emails immediately is extremenly beneficial.



Gerry Champoux
Williams International
Walled Lake, MI




In Reply to

STEVEG
20-Turquoise
(To:davehaigh)

I agree with leaving well enough alone. I posted a comment to the announcement and think this is a bad idea by PTC. I think the more posts about it in the actual announcement would help. And the person that "Liked" the announcement was probably a PTC employee.

I wouldn't call this news shocking at all.


* PTC forms their own forum years ago
* PTC takes over the conference a few years ago
* PTC has greater involvement in PTC User, eventually taking control
* PTC User has invested nearly nothing into the exploder for close to a decade.

The handwriting was on the wall and me and others voiced concerns here about the rise of the PTC Community and the future of PTC User [1]. We were told not to worry. In fact, here's the full quote from Mark Hodges at PTC in that thread from March of last year:

Doug,

I wanted to confirm that PTC has no intention or strategy in place to take community discussions away from PTC/User. PTC and the PTC/USER Board of directors regularly discuss this topic at our executive reviews and have agreed that it is important to retain both communities and encourage our customer base to utilize them based on individual preference, type of issue, service available etc. We do not see any conflict in actively encouraging both communities for the future.

Regards Mark

Mark Hodges
Chief Customer Officer

I took him at his word, but frankly was waiting for the other shoe to drop. I guess it has.

Neither the PTC User portal nor PTC's Community is a very user friendly experience.

The PTC User Exploder has long worked well as an email list, but newer users that manage to find it try to use it as a forum (which it technically is) and it doesn't work well that way. A side issue with making a forum work via email is that the actual web forum is a mess. Replies tagged to the wrong message, lots of extraneous text, etc.

The PTC Community site doesn't suffer from those ills, but it's messy and confusing, the spell checker is pathetic and manually activated and is more passive than the Exploder. One can subscribe to get new topics and replies via email, but one cannot reply or post without going to the forum. The user experience there, ironically, mimics the user experience with Proe & Creo over the years - frustrating, inconsistent and difficult. (Also ironically, Solid Works uses the same forum software & layout.)

I find that, though there are experts in both communities, the quality of information and knowledge is better here.

Combining the communities, from a shared knowledge perspective, should be a good thing. It's just a matter of who we'll lose along the way. MCADCentral went through a much needed reboot recently and has never really returned to what it was.

Losing the independence and user first focus that PTC User once had is definitely a blow to the community.

[1] -
--
Doug Schaefer | Experienced Mechanical Design Engineer
LinkedIn
DonSenchuk
5-Regular Member
(To:davehaigh)

Aside from making sure our opinion is heard here, everyone be sure to write to your Enterprice Account Manager (or whatever their titles are today) and tell them your opinion.


Fact #1. PTC support costs a boat load of money.
Fact #2. The last 6 times I have called the PTC Support desk, I have had
either no resolution upon first contact or partial resolution after 24
hours.
Fact #3. I do not use PTC support because its ineffective.

Its simple logistics, I can make one call to PTC and hope for one person
to answer and/or leave a message
OR,
send one email and reach dozens of people who are very willing and capable
to assist me.
.
Make no mistake about the reason PTC wants this. It has nothing to do to
improve user support.


Best Regards,

Jose M. Resendis
Mechanical & Optical Engineering Center (MOEC)
Raytheon - Space & Airborne Systems (SAS)

"Great execution requires discipline"


ditto

Scott Rockwell | Hardware Engineering | Quantum | Office: 720.249.5752 | Mobile: 720.320.5276 | scott.rockwell@quantum.com
quantum.com/BeCertain<">http://www.quantum.com/BeCertain>


Another voice

Mail Exploder Works, I vote to keep



I belong to several Forums and some have email, but only when someone responds to your post will you get an email.

On forums you spend way too much time hunting around for topics, replies etc.. and frankly it’s a mess.

The Exploder is quick and easy and very resourceful.

My email is setup to filter by rules, certain discussions about configs, drawings, windchill etc..

Going to a forum will be most aggravating and non-productive.



PTC/User is like a family, so PTC don’t break up our family!



Long Live PTC/User



JScott



Jeff Lippeth ▪ Mold Design Engineer

NyproMold, Inc.

▪ P 847.855.2226


Knew the day I was asked to review the Planet PTC Forum that this day would come. I too hit up Mark Hodges and Ron Watson to see why PTC was taking over PTC/USER (Pro/USER) real estate. Was told it's a partnership, each doing their part for the users, but would be separate. Ah, yes remember the conferences of old where the PTC/USER Board of Directors would personally introduce every user presentation being given at the conference. Reviewing and approving the PTC/USER budget (well not so much maybe). Voting on enhancements on a scantron ballot. That was connection between PTC/USER and its members. PTC/USER has been nothing but a figurehead, lost vendor booth, at PTC's conference for more than a few years now, I sincerely doubt they will even be at PTC's conference next year.

Tim P. Cooper
Lead Designer
GE Oil & Gas
North American ATO

T +1 281 878 6168
M +1 281 796 9038
F +1 281 715 4116
-<">mailto:->
www.ge.com

Just another vote to keep the exploder. This way we get answers and can
answer questions parallel to our jobs. Email is running the whole time,
forums almost not.



Uwe Driehaus



Dipl. - Ing. Uwe Driehaus

Weststr. 27

87561 Oberstdorf


Shocked...no.....surprised....no.....head shaking....yes....


All I will say is this....WE users have the power to use or not use PTC community. Personally, I know from 29 years of experience that PTC Helpwas/is/alwayswill begarbage. Too slow, uninformed and too textbook. We do not design in a classroom and need real, fast, grunt level assistance from other users without being sanitized by PTC.


If PTC pulls off this final coup...I say we all form a new "exploder"for users. Social media is WAAAAAYYYYY too easy today and will facilitate a new and improved method of communication.


The one question that puzzles me is why? The exploder does not make money...nor do any of the people who share ideas and help one another. What is the benefit to PTC is there is no MONEY to be had?


Shame on you PTC!

Yet another voice.

I love the idea that it’s a push system. Even if you skim, you are getting tid bits and you can always go back to the forum and look it up. I lean on our group of people as my local support and I see the exploder as an extension of that. There are countless tips I’ve picked up and have passed along throughout the years.

It wil be missed. I’ve been a member from about ’98.

Jim
BrianTaylor
4-Participant
(To:davehaigh)

The Why is pretty simple in my opinion. PTC does not have the ability to
site monitor ptcuser like the do their own forum. i.e. get rid of the bad
press as they see fit from us raving users !


Brian L. Taylor
Principal Technical Support Engineer
Hardware Engineering Center
Space and Airborne Systems
Raytheon Company
972-344-7697 (office)
-

13510 North Central Expressway
Dallas Tx 75243 USA
www.raytheon.com

Follow Raytheon On




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TracyWillis
4-Participant
(To:davehaigh)

NO! Shutting down the exploder is NOT a good idea and it will definitely have a negative impact on the users.
Especially the ones that aren't allowed to access social media during their workday.
The solution to the users question is typically only minutes away via the e-mail exploder. Please don't break that.
The exploder works and it's convenient for the users.... Please Keep It Simple PTC

Maybe, this announcement will help revitalize some of the Regional User Groups and we can keep the users information flowing without the involvement of PTC.

Tw

To be fair, there is no evidence that PTC blocks any negative posts on their site. Just look at how many pro SW posts there are.

--
--
Doug Schaefer | Experienced Mechanical Design Engineer
LinkedIn

I think so they can drive traffic through the PTC Community so as to increase exposure. There are a lot of good and very bright people on the PTC Community, but when I need answers, I come to PTC/User.

In my opinion the user base on PTC User is much more experienced, so they would gain if all users simply move to the PTC Community.

This is horrible news. But like others have mentioned it's not totally
unexpected. A free resource like PTCuser hurts PTC's revenue, and it
seems that financial performance is the main thing PTC is concerned about.
The manuals used to be good enough to learn how to use the software, now
they are almost completely useless. And this undoubtedly is so they can
sell support and training. The really sad thing is even PTCs support that
you pay for does not seem to be as helpful as the free PTCuser.


A very disappointed

Doug Barton
Senior Mechanical Designer
Parker Hannifin Canada
Electronic Controls Division
1305 Clarence Avenue
Winnipeg, MB R3T 1T4 Canada
direct 204 453 3339 x309
fax 204 452 7156
-
www.parker.com/ecd




Marshdamp
5-Regular Member
(To:davehaigh)

WTF! Getting emails is far superior to the communities thing. You can
scan through them quickly. You can save specific ones for quick look up
at a later date. You don't have to go log into some website just to send
a quick response to somebody. Very disappointing.



/Michael


I have used both PTC user and PTC community. To me the difference is PTC User (Exploder) is mostly business. Users post questions and generally only solid answers are posted in response. PTC community has some good resources, but it seems some people post just to "talk". Not too big of a deal, except that you now have more meaningless material to read. Also the amount of first time, seemingly un-trained users posting on PTC community is much higher.

So as you have all said - Keep the mail Exploder!

Bill Chapman
Email: -<">mailto:->
Tel: 708-496-3100 | Cell: 708-205-5705

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