Getting Started help

[GioT.]

I decided to go through the Getting Started tutorial for Wildfire 4.0 on ptc.com (WF_Workflow_Guide.book) on my own, but seem to be stuck on page 84. Making the keypad for the cell phone I made the keypad base and populated the small buttons on it. Now it's time to make the large ons. I made the rough sketch of the large button using three lines and an arc, and entered strong dimensions for the two parallel sides + arc. Now the tutorial says: "Use the Add Dimensions tool to place a dimension between the bottom line of the large button and the center of the top right button of the pattern. For now, accept the weak value. This is the dimension you will “drive� with a relational formula." (as shown in the image attached below) How do I define center of the ellipse (the top right button) in Sketcher? Thanks in advance and hope this is the right place to open such a topic!

[Kevin]

You may have figured this out but you need to specify the ellipse as a reference so you get the center point and so you can place the centerline tangent to it. Take a look at step 3 on page 83 (4-41). It tells you how to select it.

[GioT.]

Thank you Kevin! "From the list box, select any one of the surfaces listed. The edge around the entire surface will highlight, and the center of the ellipse is shown." Eureka, bingo, ka-ching ... ! 😄 Sometimes one can't notice something, even if it hits one in the face I'm sure all of you had a situation like this ... middle of the night, you've been working all day and you really need to finish something, but you're stuck and feel like there is no way out. Your going through the last thing you've been working on, all over again, but it's just not there, Google is no help at all, the brain just freezes! Thanks again!

[GioT.]

Extrude the Large Button 1.Click Insert > Extrude and use the front surface as the sketching plane. 2.Open the References dialog box. Select the edge of the upper-right button as a reference, as shown in the next figure. You are actually referencing the vertical surface of the button, not the edges of the rounds. To select the correct entity, place the cursor over the button edge and select Pick from List from the shortcut menu. A list box opens, listing all entities in the vicinity under the cursor. 3.From the list box, select any one of the surfaces listed. The edge around the entire surface will highlight, and the center of the ellipse is shown. When the surface is selected, it is added to the list in the References dialog box, and its color changes to orange to indicate that it is a reference. Close the dialog box. Getting Started tutorial for Wildfire 4.0, page 83 A picture tells a thousand words - see the attached image. Thanks in advance, I really need any help I can get!

[Kevin]

The part where it says to select any one of the surfaces is misleading in my opinion. In the list box you should see several items for Surf, Edge, and IntentEdg. You want to pick the surface that is the elliptical extrude. It will have the form: Surf:F8(Extrude_2_2_1) To help you see what your looking at expand the pattern for your elliptical extrude so you can see the name of the feature. You can also add the feature number to the model tree by selecting the Settings dropdown and then Tree Columns>Feat # and add it to the list on the right side of the dialog box. Surf is the feature type, F8 is the feature number, Extrude_2 is the feature name, and _2_1 is the pattern instance.

[GioT.]

Oh, I see, a really simple detail that I missed or is missing from the book. A Ctrl here, Shift their, may be a combination - the intimate details of Pro/E Something a guy learns to use intuitively after countless hours of working with the software. Again, kudos to you Kevin!

[GioT.]

Thank you Kevin for the quick and fulfilling answer! I did as you said and if I got your words correctly, there must be no Feature 8 in my model tree. May be I missed something while making the keypad. Should I start building part all over again? I attached a screenshot of my model tree.

[Kevin]

I was just giving an example of what the line in the Pick List should look like so no you don't need to start over. I didn't get to see your screen shot so I don't know if you have Feat # in it or not. If not don't worry about it I was just wanting you to see where the F8 came from. I created the part up to the button you are trying to create. In your model tree expand the pattern feature for the elliptical extrude. You will see the name of the feature and the pattern instance with its position in the pattern. If our models are the same the elliptical button you want as the reference is the top right ellipse and should have the name Extrude 2 [1,4] in the model tree. When you go to select the reference from the Pick List for the large button you should see three surface options, one for Extrude 1, one for Extrude 2, and one for Round 2. You want to select the one for Extrude 2. If our files are exactly the same the line you want to pick is: Surf:F17(EXTRUDE_2_1_4) From what you are writing I assume the name for the elliptical pattern is the same but the number after the F is different? Go ahead and select that line. Anything after the F can be different depending on how you created features and whether or not you renamed the feature. I'll check back again to see if I can view you screen shot.

[GioT.]

Thanks Kevin! Here is the direct link to the screenshot: http://download.ptc.com/forums/2009_08_26_230159_901.png optionally, to view the image I attached previously you can reload contents of this page, overriding the cache (a Hard Refresh) with CTRL+SHIFT+R or CTRL+F5 (for IE, Firefox, etc. under Windows) and/or Cmd+Shift+R (for Mac OS).

[GioT.]

Houston we have the ellipse center Yeah, our models seem to be the same: Again, thanks a bunch Kevin!

[Kevin]

Good! Glad I could help.

[GioT.]

Another problem, now with "Add Hole and Rounds to Brace Feature" under "Add the Antenna Brace" (pages 94-95) Adding a hole is a simple operation, but an important problem arouse! Everything went OK up to this point in the tutorial: Adding an antenna brace was not a problem, but inserting a hole into it became one. See, I'm doing as it says: "1.To add a hole centered on the brace axis, select the brace axis and click Insert > Hole. A preview hole is placed in line with the axis. (Be sure axes are displayed. To simplify selecting the axis, use Pick from List or set the filter to Datums.) Set the diameter to 3.25. 2.Open the Placement panel. It should show the hole type as coaxial, with the brace axis as the primary reference. .. " But this is what I get in the Placement panel: " (continues) .. Click in the secondary reference collector to activate it, and select the circular surface of the brace as the secondary reference. This positions the hole at the upper surface of the brace." If I dear select the circular surface of the brace as a secondary reference, collector jumps to it (the surface) as primary and to type Liner. After this I am forced to select two datum plains to offset from and I do successfully by entering the right dimentions (even though it's not by the book). This of course is another way to reference the hole, but it just NOT the proper way! I need to create a coaxial hole, not only here but in other parts of the tutorial, where I won't be able to get myself out of the situation this way (wrong way, obviously)! How do I create a coaxial hole in this situation? Any help appreciated. Thanks!

[Kevin]

The directions for this need to be changed. To select the references for the coaxial hole select the axis then hold down the control (CTRL) key and select the surface.

[GioT.]

I'm right at the end of the last part for the call phone (page 121 in the Getting Started tutorial for Wildfire 4.0). Again, I'm having a problem inserting a hole. The book says: 1. Use the Hole tool to insert the coaxial holes in each post. The holes use the pin axis as the first reference and the pin surface as the second reference. They are standard M2.2X.45 holes with ISO threading. Screw depth is 5.25. So I do, but I get an error from Pro/E (as you can see in the picture below), and unlike Windows and BIOS error codes (a joke:-), I can't seem to find a solution to it! What Am I missing here? Any help greatly appreciated! Hopefully I won't be bothering with stupid questions any time sooner.

[Kevin]

To change the accuracy select Edit>Setup>Accuracy. To change absolute accuracy you may need to add enable_absolute_accuracy yes to your config.pro if absolute doesn't show in the list.

[GioT.]

Hi Kevin Edit > Setup > Accuracy asked for relative part accuracy value (is currently 0.0012) I didn't modify it. Instead, with Notepad I edited "config.pro" by adding "enable_absolute_accuracy yes" to the end of a string in it (separated with a space and without quotation marks, of course), no result - same error massage. Anything else I can do? Thanks!

[Kevin]

Check the config.pro using to Tools>Options to make sure the option is loaded. You may also need to shutdown and reopen ProE. It may initially ask for relative accuracy but it should display the menu manager with relative and absolute. If it doesn't let you change the absolute accuracy try supressing everything in the model tree and then try to change it. Depending on the value you enter it may give an error and display a range for the value you can enter. You might try the lowest value it gives or something close but greater than the lowest value.

[GioT.]

Option is NOT loaded. I mast have entered it wrongly (though highly unlikely as I triple-checked it) or the application does not recognize "enable_absolute_accuracy yes" option, as I can't find any other "config.pro" to edit! Should I create one for Pro/E in the destination directory you tell me? I haven't tried suppressing everything in the model tree, because quite frankly, I don't know how to do it Did PTC miss something in the Getting Started tutorial, as I should not be doing all of this since I'm just "getting started", right?! Thanks Kevin! P.S. To board administrators: there is an FTP error if I try uploading an image!

[Kevin]

The only other thing I can suggest is to create the config.pro file using the Tools>Options dialog box in your last post. If you type en in the option box in the lower left enable_absolute_accuracy should automatically populate the box and you can set the value. Save the file in your ProE startup directory. You can determine the startup directory by selecting the Folder Browser>Working Directory from the Model tree area or by selecting Working Directory from the Open File dialog box when you first open ProE. I don't think they missed anything although it doesn't appear they updated the text but they did update the pictures for WF4. It is puzzling why you can't get the feature to work with the relative accuracy setting. I didn't have a problem with it.

[GioT.]

Entering the option from Tools > Options worked! Here is the list of actions I performed after enabling absolute accuracy: Right after selecting ACCURACY in Menu Manager Pro/E asked for relative part accuracy value (but the Absolute option was also there). I pushed 'Esc' and selected Absolute, then Select Model under ABS ACCURACY (couldn't select Enter value having no abs value at hand): Application output: Even after this I got the same error massage from Pro/E. I must have one twisted model, but is it? I mean, just take a look at the model tree: Except for may be a minor issue (highlighted on the model tree) where I was unable to Apply Round Edges exactly as the book said (page 108) - I had to apply rounds separately to upper and lower edges of the "upper extrusion", and the cover edge, instead of using New Sets (as exemplified on pages 87, 91, 96 and 104) that resulted in error(s) - do you see any serious problem here? Thank you for your help and patience Kevin!

[Kevin]

I don't see anything wrong with what you are doing. The directions for those rounds are confusing. I can check the model files they provide but I think those rounds are meant to be applied one at a time.

[Kevin]

Looking at the files they include the rounds are applied separately.

[Kevin]

Looking at the features after Extrude 6 your model deveates from theirs. Extrude 7 is a boss for the earpiece, Extrude 8 is a cut for the earpiece, Round 6 is at the base of Extrude 7. They have a couple of datum planes that aren't being used. They don't have a sketch 1. Extrude 9 is a cut for the mouthpiece. Assuming your features are the same up to Extrude 7 and Skecth 1 is what drives Extrude 8 or doesn't drive anything, your model may be okay up to Extrude 9. After that the features appear to be in an incorrect order. Not sure how that would affect the hole feature. Extrude 10 should be the square boss around the mouthpiece cut. Round 7 should be at the base of Extrude 10 so it should appear after it. Extrude 11 should be the posts and Extrude 12 should be the stand-offs on the posts. Round 8 should be at the base of the posts so it should be after Extude 11 and Extrude 12. The hole and the copied hole should appear before Round 8. The last features should be a mirror of the posts and a cutout for the key pad.

[Kevin]

Going backthrough the tutorial there are a couple of round features their models don't include or are ordered differently. I ended up with the same model tree you have up to Extrude 12 excluding the Sketch 1 you have in yours. I didn't have a problem adding the holes to the posts so I'm not sure what the problem is.

[GioT.]

Thank you for your thorough inquiry into my problem. Since the primary procedure for troubleshooting a problem is not working - you are unable to reproduce it - it's going to become allot harder to get trough to the cause. Getting hands on with my actual model (the last version, including Extrude 12) may be just what the doctor ordered. At least this way we'll figure out if it's the application configuration issue or a seriously messed up model. If you agree, I'll be glad to send the file over to you. It's around 600 KBs, a few seconds to download even on the slowest of Dial-Up connections. Thanks again!

[Kevin]

Sure I can do that. Just let me know how you want to get the file to me.

[GioT.]

Great! I zipped the file, but the problems with uploading files to this board still remains (even though .zip is supported and archive size is nowhere near the 2 MB limit), so I'll have to either IM (Skype, Yahoo!, MSN, ICQ, AIM... what ever suites you), or email it to you. There are other ways, but they mostly involve exchanging links anywhay, and/or entering CAPTCHAs... so why bother, when we have, say, trusted email that's been serving our file sharing needs for more than three decades now I temporarily enabled showing my email address in my account, thus you can email me directly and tell me your preferred way (be that same email or IM) and I'll get back to you. It's better not to leave open email and IM credentials on boards and forums, for obvious security reasons, plus we have tons of mail bots constantly sniffing for this exact information. Especially since this particular board is dated 2006, for goodness sake!

[Kevin]

I sent an email to you so you can send the file.