Creo 1.0 and Cabling

[Marshdamp]

I just started fooling around with cabling in Creo 1 and I'm already a
bit frustrated. It will take me some time to figure out the new ribbon
interface for cabling. The first thing I tried to do however has me very
concerned. I started trying to route a network. I couldn't get to much
of anything to happen so I fired up help and started to read. We
typically start routing our networks with a point that is offset from
the coordinate system that we assemble a connector to. What is the first
thing I see under offset locations while routing networks in the help
file? "You cannot create an offset location for the first location."
What the hell? I have always used an offset location as the first
location for my networks. This is the second thing with offset locations
that PTC has messed up. The first was that in wildfire 5 you could no
longer add an offset location to a random spot on a cable or network,
reference it to something, and have the system automatically calculate
the X, Y, and Z offsets to make the location stay there. It would jump
to 0,0,0. I haven't checked to see if this is still the case in Creo
1.0. I can't get that far...yet.



Aaarrrgghhh,

MTC


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[JeffND]

This sounds bad, and unacceptable.



How else can you start a network that follows a connector and allows the
wires to go to individual entry ports? Without added features.



Regards,
Jeff

[JimBarrettSmith]

MTC / Jeff



Comments below



Thanks



Jim

[Marshdamp]

What does this work flow have to do with being able to start a network
segment with an offset point? Normally I route my network first so that
I can try to use auto route later to get the wires to go in. I always
start my networks with a location offset from a coordinate system in the
skeleton that a connector will assemble to. This places my first
location about 40mm off the back of the connector. Then I create a
second offset location about 10mm farther out then the first one. I now
have a 10mm chunk of network behind my connector. I do that for all my
connectors and then go back and connect the various 10mm segments
together with other piece of network routing from location to location.
After that I go back and add offset locations to those and use them to
locate the routing. This is where the broken offset point creation
causes me problems. Our 0,0,0 location can be 2000mm or more from where
I want the offset location to go. It is a major pain to have to zoom
out and do multiple drags just to get it back to where I clicked on the
harness. I just want it to calculate the offsets that put the location
where I click on the harness relative to the reference coordinate system
I chose so the harness doesn't go all wonky through 0,0,0. Cabling used
to do this so I know it is possible to do. You have removed existing
functionality from the cabling package thereby making it impossible for
us to do our harness following methods that have worked fairly well for
us.

[JimBarrettSmith]

MTC



Thanks for the comments and please see my comments below



Thanks



Jim

[JeffND]

Jim,



I consider the Network, the Backbone of my routings. I like having it, so
at any moment I could delete any wire and autoroute it. I do struggle
sometimes with some wires, getting them to say they are complete. Or some
other various problems, like bend radius all of the sudden is violated. A
lot of times the fastest resolution is to delete the wire, and recreate,
and reroute. So I don't understand going to a methodology of routing
without the network.



Can you bundle wires not routed with a network or "follow cable", in CREO?



The datum point, or axis, or csys , in a connector model has some merit.
Not sure that it will have the flexibility needed in some tight locations.


I also do work for a large corporation, and do not have write access to
component models. May be an uphill battle to convince them of need for
these features.



Not sure how eliminating this possibility, of starting with an offset
location, helps anyone. Other then maybe stopping people who were
misusing it.



Regards,
Jeff

[swschultz]

So you are telling me Jim that the technical committee specifically reviewed
the removal of the functionality of creating an offset point to start a
network and determined that this was an enhancement to the software? This is
what is stated below, but I have a difficult time believing this. Somehow I
can't just get my head around the conversation that went something like:
"Let's see, what "enhancements" will truly benefit the Pro/Cabling users?
Oh, Oh, I know, - removing the ability to start a network using an offset
point". Obviously that's not what happened and there are workarounds, but in
the end the functionality was removed for still unknown and unjustified
reasons.



What I would really like to know how this removal is an enhancement to the
software, and what harm would it have been to leave the piece of
functionality right where it was? Just because some TC folks might not use a
particular aspect of the software does not mean that major vehicle
manufacturing companies who route cables on a daily basis don't have this
need. Some of the companies that use this offset point technique are my
customers, and they are actually some of your larger customers as well.



Scott W. Schultz

Principal Consultant

3D Relief Inc.

[JimBarrettSmith]

Scott



What I am trying articulate is that Cabling design had a significant
re-design which resulted in a change of workflow. I am also trying to
explain the thinking behind the design and how we expected users to work
with the new software. Furthermore I am owning up to a removing the
functionality highlighted in this e-mail thread.

Assuming those who are pointing out the need for the omitted
functionality have actually taken update training and updated their
workflows to benefit from the new functionality it is clear PTC will
have to investigate re-introducing the omitted functionality.



Finally just to be clear the Technical Committee do an absolutely
fantastic job of guiding the product, highlighting flaws in the design
and generally explaining their workflows in order to improve the
product. Whilst the TC works very hard and is fully dedicated it cannot
be expected to cover every workflow / industry therefore I for one would
welcome those who are being vocal about the re-design to become active
members of the Routed Systems TC to expand the knowledge base.



As always I appreciate the healthy discussion and welcome all good and
bad feedback. As a result of this mail the concerns have been clearly
understood so stay tuned!



Thanks



Jim

[aoler]

Scott,

I understand your perspective of the Technical Committee. When we first
started using RSD about 5 years ago there were some obvious short comings
in the software that our Industry (FA&D) thought was common practice. I
had many discussions with Jim and was told the same kind of story you are
hearing now, the T/C pointed the software in a specific direction and this
is what the out come was. I soon joined the T/C and have become a thorn in
Jim's side ever since!

When the re-design for Cabling was coming together it was looked at as a
total redesign, and because of that, the "way I have always done it before"
had to be thrown out the window and looked at from a new perspective.

The Routed Systems Technical Committee is always looking for more active
members. We have many new plans on the horizon and getting as many people
involved from different Industries will only make the future products that
much better.

The Technical Committees meet twice a year "Face to Face". Once in January
at PTC Headquarters in Needham, MA, and then again after the PlanetPTC Live
Conference in June. Throughout the year we will have teleconferences to
discuss specific topics that the T/C or PTC would like to discuss. I plan
on trying to hold at least monthly calls so we can keep in touch on a
regular basis.

To join the T/C, go to

[JimBarrettSmith]

Ok well I now have to hold my hands up and apologize for forgetting that
the new functionality I highlighted in my very first response ("We made
an improvement which allows you to define the type of location you want
to create prior to creation. So now you can select offset select the
references then drag the location into place, you can also use the
repeat command to add a second offset location") does allow you to set
your first location as an offset location.



I would also like to thank PD for highlighting my forgetfulness and
again I apologize for not remembering.



Attached is a movie showing the picks and clicks using the dashboard and
the using the right click option.



Thus problem 1 of 2 already solved with Creo 1.0



Thanks



Jim

[JimBarrettSmith]

David



Creo cabling training will be available soon however there is cabling training for Creo Elements Pro 5 available which will introduce you to the new workflow and is the most important training in my opinion. The changes in Creo 1 in comparison are easier to understand.



What’s new <">http://www.ptc.com/appserver/wcms/relnotes/index.jsp?show=y&product=403&module=5261&version=1970&functional=&process=> on PTC.com will provide an overview of the new functionality in each release with text and video.



An update presentation is available for technical sales and if you ask you local account team they can arrange for it to be presented to you.



At PTCUser we provide an update for all the new enhancements and most years I demonstrate the new functionality live. I am also on the booth so that you can speak to me to discuss in detail the new enhancements.



The help files should also provide an insight into the new functionality – although I admit there is an error with offset location information which will be fixed in due course



Consultants are trained in the new functionality so when customers request update training, the consultant can understand you current workflows and advise you on how they will change \ should be change to obtain maximum benefit from the new technology.



And of course there is the exploder where there is a wealth of information and people who are willing to help.



So I hope the black hole is not all that big I think it is just a case of knowing where to go for the information



Thanks



Jim

[JeffND]

Looks like quite a lot of change with 5.0. I can’t say I had heard of most
changes till now, and reviewing videos below. Most things look good. Looks
like saving a few mouse picks.



Hope you can manually put in offset distances yet, rather than just dragging
a grab handle.



Didn’t see anything on Branch bundles, splice implementation, or custom
components. Guess I’ll have to wait to get new version to explore those
items.



Aron,

Would love to help on TC, but don’t have money and usually the time. Could
some upcoming stuff be posted somewhere, so comments could be given ahead of
releases? Or trial software posted, so if I do find time, can try out and
comment?



Regards,



Jeff Roeber

Applied Engineering

www.ae-soltuions.com

[mkemp]

Hi Jeff,



You can manually define the offset distance for the active location using the Placement panel (there is also a ‘most recently used’ list) or just editing the dimension in the graphics window:







Regards,





Martin Kemp

Product Definition Manager

PTC

[JimBarrettSmith]

All



I hope you are all happy to receive this news.



A complaint was put forward about offset location in cabling design, PTC listened and have now addressed the complaint. This morning I created a video for your perusal



The fix will be in



Creo Elements Pro 5.0 M110 – available now

Creo 1.0 M010 – available now



All the best



Jim