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why does CATIA win over Creo(Pro/Engineer) ?

rohit_rajan
12-Amethyst

why does CATIA win over Creo(Pro/Engineer) ?

why does CATIA win over Creo (Pro/Engineer)?

1. Is it the functionality?

2. The marketing?

3. Or both of the above?

If so how can it be countered?

12 REPLIES 12

From where is this assumption derived?

Maybe this has some applicable references:

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2010/06/23/chrysler%E2%80%99s-engineering-software-shift/

At least this article includes some statistics about market share with some analysis.

I 2nd Antonius!!!!!!!!!

Where in the WORLD do you think CATIA is preferred over PRO/E?

The only country I know where this may be practeced is in INDIA. I do not know about CHINA. CATIA in my estimation gets proliferated because it is CHEAP + there are many unlicensed copies. The students I get from ASIA & come to the US quickly abandon their pirated CATIA copies & start working with PRO/E or SOLIDWORKS!

SOLIDWORKS seems to be the preferred package because the learning curve is not so drastic as for PRO/E.

So qualify OR quantify your statement because you are coming our of LEFT FIELD!!!!!!!

I do not represent PTC I just have used their product & others such as ANSYS, NASTRAN, & SOLIDWORKS. I also teach engineering at a state institutional university.

CATIA is surely not cheap...it is roughly double the price of Pro/Engineer.

just look at the results of the last quarter...

http://gfxspeak.com/2013/02/07/dassault-systemes-tops-e3-billion-revenue-in-2012/ -dassault

http://schnitgercorp.com/2013/02/04/ptc-reports-lackluster-fq1-focuses-on-portfolio/- PTC

Rohit Rajan wrote:

CATIA is surely not cheap...it is roughly double the price of Pro/Engineer.

just look at the results of the last quarter...

http://gfxspeak.com/2013/02/07/dassault-systemes-tops-e3-billion-revenue-in-2012/-dassault

http://schnitgercorp.com/2013/02/04/ptc-reports-lackluster-fq1-focuses-on-portfolio/- PTC

There is some apples and oranges comparison here... The one for Dessault is for 2012 results and the one for PTC is 2010. The figures and statistics for both are still quite impressive. I still don't understand the reason for the original post. I just see two players in the same market. Each wins some and each looses some. It is the nature of the beast.

When it comes to corporate choices between one brand vs. the other, there are more bean counters making the decisions than actual users. If the users are lucky, someone will take into account the cost of conversion. But in general, you can pretty much bet that the Euro attitude is "buy local" where they will favor a Euro supplier. Very similar to the USA slogan to "Buy American"... but from experience, Europeans are much more dedicated to their brands.

All these systems that have been around for better than a decade, maybe closer to two decades, and have become "engrained" in the very large enterprise solutions. Mega-bucks have been spent on customization and add-ons. The more a company invests, the less likely they are willing to change. If you really look at the history of both companies, you might find that Dessault was in the market earlier with a more complete solution, and their growth reflects this in their total seat count and gross revenues.

And back to the point of the two linked references; have a look back at the 2010 timeframe in the financial graphs... Dessault wasn't doing very well either and PTC was actually kickin' their bumms.

A real study of the question would make for a good financial article in some zine, but for us to guess based on a few disconnected data sources is purely speculation.

hi Antonius,

thanx for ur reply. just a correction..both the reports are current.

the reason for my original post was....is CATIA better functionality wise or not?

if it is better then can Pro/Engineer be matched in the future because there is a big ASIA market also where again CATIA seems to be doing better.

My apologies. Earlier the link referenced a 2010 report. Not sure how I got there.

I have no great love for PTC. I feel they have sat on their core and simply squeezed the most that they could out of it. They cater to larger customers and the small user simply is not what keeps them in business. Acquisitions is keeping them more than busy with new offerings rather than refining the core.

Balance this against what Dassault has done with SolidWorks and at least make an attempt at appeasing the small user, and you get a level of brand loyalty that every other player has accomplished, not least of which keeps Autodesk on the tip of everyone's tongue.

Have you looked under the hood of SolidWorks? It is a time bom waiting to happened. Unfortunately I have never worked with Catia nor do understand the source so it is hard to comment. I have worked with Siemens Unigraphics. Cost alone will void this option for many. In this sense, Catia is more in the class of Unigraphics than Creo. PTC does offer this entry level package which is good enough for a huge business segment. When you start adding the extensions to make an enterprise solution, however, you will be out some serious money.

I suspect Dassault's SolidWorks was an answer to compete with Creo and has a lot to do with a few of the smaller wins.

After a decade of working with PTC on the low end of PTC's offering, I find that very little has been done to keep up with the meager competition. In many ways, the refinement of the product is more lacking today then ever before.

Having said that, however, Pro|E/WF/Creo is still a solid core. When things do work, or when you do need the support (which we pay for) you will have solutions, although not always what you want. It is no different with the other companies. I don't need to be spoon fed, but I do expect a certain level of completeness. I can only hope that one day PTC will have Creo up to snuff. But I am not expecting to get more than I am getting today. If you want more, you are expected to pay for it. And that is no different with any of the other challengers.

Again, it is a lot of speculation for the likes of us. There are some very clever people with solid business plans that compete at levels we cannot fathom (or we wouldn't be wasting time here). I'm just glad that I am free to use what I want, and that I don't have to make multi-million dollar decisions with regard to what software I have to use. I'm very hard pressed to pay $1500/yr for maintenance. If the software doesn't earn it, I won't stick with it. Last maintenance I paid for was back in 1999, until recently when I rejoined for a specific contract. In all honesty, I was perfectly happy with Pro|E 2000i.

I have not been on Pro|E 2000i. I started with Pro|Engineer Wildfire 2.0.

Pro|Engineer is the backone of Solidworks. That's the only comparison.

I too have no love for PTC, but yes i do like the software a lot. PTC should be more considerate towards the small users.

Unigraphics has been doing well in that case even SolidEdge has picked up.

We all recenlty submitted some ehancement requests, i hope they are taken seriuosly.

That is just it. Catia and Unigraphics are $15K packages. If you put enough extensions together from PTC, you would get a pretty powerful piece of software least of which would be the flexible modeling extension, advanced surfacing, and enhanced assembly. Maybe even the advanced renderer. Now you are in the same league. So when you look at Dassault, you need to consider comparing Catia to a "full blown" deal from PTC. Then when comparing SolidWorks, you are looking at bare bones Creo. Those of us that have no reference to enterprise packages with high end solutions really lack the visibility needed to understand the choices.

But the question is about the wins of either company on high end solutions. I think this requires some thoughtful sleuthing to ferret out the real reason, up to and including interviewing the big customers. And that is only if they are willing to admit anything real. If they just changed, they are in a wait and see mode to see if their "partner" can really deliver.

Nicely stated...

gvora
5-Regular Member
(To:TomD.inPDX)

I fully agree with you about PTC personnel bureaucracy. I even mentioned my opinion long time back to Dan Marotta, PTC community manager. The management does not want to change its way of managing the company. Dan Marotta must frankly tell the management about users' feelings. I even talked two times with

Paul Sagar, product dvelopment in charge.

Thanks.

Gautam Vora.

Hi Gautam Vora

I'm no longer with PTC. If you have feedback for management, please reach out to Ryan Kelley or the respective product manager.

Regards,

Dan

All the modules accept drawing are good in proe as I feel.

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