1-Visitor

Question

Worried that I am on the edge of the universe all alone

Forum|Forum|15 years ago
November 11, 2010
25 replies
4351 views

I have been doing a lot of customization of Pro/E lately using J-Link and EFX.

It seems that there are not very many people doing this. I say that
because whenever I have a problem there are very few people that
answer questions on the mailing lists and more worrysome is that PTC
can't fix the problems either.

Anyone out there???

Jlink

lheller

1-Visitor

You are not alone. I was thrown into working with Pro/Toolkit and man... what a learning curve. Especially without any formal training on Pro/E, Pro/Toolkit, or C.

I am currently attempting to port the C Toolkit codeover to VB, and the VB API documention isfairly sparse in parts. Google isn't your friend either, since most searches return only two hits: the WF4 and WF5 VB API PDFs.

Ah well... weforge ahead, because when it works, it's cool.

pwilliams-3

13-Aquamarine

If you're looking for Pro/TOOLKIT training I found this on the net.

Cosmo

1-Visitor

Try Sigmaxim's SmartAssembly tool. It has all the capabilities of tooolkit and then some. But it's designed for non-programming proe users to use.

jkent

1-Visitor

We are right there with you. We have a lot invested in Java, J-Link, and
the Windchill API. We've developed some pretty cool applications using
these technologies. I wish PTC would figure out a way to give us a
complete set of methods for J-Link and not just a sub set. I understand
that being able to license Toolkit and charge $20k pays a lot more bills
than giving away J-Link for free. Surely someone could come up with a
solution. Are you a member of the technical committee? Might be worth
joining to get your voice heard by PTC and let them know that there are
J-Link users out there.

pwilliams-3

13-Aquamarine

The Customization TC has discussed this very topic at length with PTC and
basically it comes down to Joe's point. Pro/TOOLKIT and it's advanced
capabilities over the PFC APIs is a revenue stream of license purchases
and maintenance which amounts to a significant dollar figure. However;
this argument will soon be over. With the CREO product, PTC is changing
it's direction on APIs and they won't be supporting the 4 APIs that
currently exist today (Pro/TOOLKIT, J-Link, WebLink, VB API). They will
only be supporting a single API which will reduce and consolidate their
efforts of development and support. There are two sides to this coin.

1) User's who extensively use the APIs that are going away will have to
migrate their programs and possibly be paying for new licenses of the
supported API.
2) The community will get much better support and development activities
because of the consolidation of effort.

I, for one, am in favor of this move because the TC has for years
complained about the lag of support in the APIs for functionality that was
readily available in the standard UI. Hopefully with the CREO
architecture, ALL of the applications will be built on top of this API
much like a .NET Framework or JRE. It definitely coincides with the claim
that CREO is open, per Brian Shepard in the CREO launch webcast.

PATRICK S WILLIAMS
Information Technology
Mechanical Engr Solutions
Missile Systems
Raytheon Company

+1 520.545.6995 (office)
+1 520.446.0244 (pager)
+1 520.545.6399 (fax)
-

6221 S Palo Verde Rd
Tucson, AZ 85706-5093 USA
www.raytheon.com

Follow Raytheon On

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lococnc

Author

1-Visitor

That is a huge problem. We won't pay for a toolkit like product. It is hard
enough to keep the Solidworks advocates at bay, if the free API's go away
that will suck.

PTC, if you are listening, pick a language, any language (but might I
suggest Java or VB) and be sure Creo supports it for free. Otherwise, why
would we move to it again>?

On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 4:35 PM, Patrick S Williams <
-> wrote:

> The Customization TC has discussed this very topic at length with PTC and
> basically it comes down to Joe's point. Pro/TOOLKIT and it's advanced
> capabilities over the PFC APIs is a revenue stream of license purchases and
> maintenance which amounts to a significant dollar figure. However; this
> argument will soon be over. With the CREO product, PTC is changing it's
> direction on APIs and they won't be supporting the 4 APIs that currently
> exist today (Pro/TOOLKIT, J-Link, WebLink, VB API). They will only be
> supporting a single API which will reduce and consolidate their efforts of
> development and support. There are two sides to this coin.
>
> 1) User's who extensively use the APIs that are going away will have to
> migrate their programs and possibly be paying for new licenses of the
> supported API.
> 2) The community will get much better support and development activities
> because of the consolidation of effort.
>
> I, for one, am in favor of this move because the TC has for years
> complained about the lag of support in the APIs for functionality that was
> readily available in the standard UI. *Hopefully* with the CREO
> architecture, ALL of the applications will be built on top of this API much
> like a .NET Framework or JRE. It definitely coincides with the claim that
> CREO is *open*, per Brian Shepard in the CREO launch webcast.
>
> *PATRICK S WILLIAMS*
> Information Technology
> Mechanical Engr Solutions
> Missile Systems*
> Raytheon Company*
>
> +1 520.545.6995 (office)
> +1 520.446.0244 (pager)
> +1 520.545.6399 (fax)*
> -* <->
>
> 6221 S Palo Verde Rd
> Tucson, AZ 85706-5093 USA*
> **www.raytheon.com* [image: YouTube]<">http://www.youtube.com/user/raytheoncompany>
> [image: Facebook] <">http://www.facebook.com/Raytheon> [image: LinkedIn]<">http://www.linkedin.com/companies/raytheon>
> [image: Dual Band podcasts] <">http://www.raytheon.com/newsroom/podcasts>
>
> [image: Raytheon Sustainability]
> *
> This message contains information that may be confidential and privileged.
> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive mail for the
> addressee), you should not use, copy or disclose to anyone this message or
> any information contained in this message. If you have received this message
> in error, please so advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete this
> message. Thank you for your cooperation.*
>
>
> From: Joe Kent <jkent@rdleverage.com> To: Michael Gamber <
> ->, ProE Customization List <
> -> Date: 11/11/2010 03:23 PM Subject: [proecus] -
> RE: Worried that I am on the edge of the universe all alone

pwilliams-3

13-Aquamarine

I understand your frustration but I think the train has already left the
station on the decision as to what language should be used. PTC must have
been working on CREO for quite some time. By the time the community hears
about the change of direction I'm sure much of the decisions have already
been made.

I just hope that the API is a much better implementation of Pro/TOOLKIT or
PFC. My complaints about Pro/TOOLKIT is that it's a C API versus a C++ OO
API. Pro/ENGINEER is written in C++ for sure (it has to be fast, can't be
Java) so why can't those classes be available in some form to users. PFC
is slow and complicated to work with. The programmer has to know what
factory class to use and how to cast the results properly to get the
object handle they want. Both APIs could use a lot of work in the
documentation dept. as well. The person in charge of the API at PTC,
IMHO, should take the experience of the user into account first rather
than the experience of their internal developers who are supporting it. I
know it takes some balancing but I really think they could do a better job
than they have in the past.

PATRICK S WILLIAMS
Information Technology
Mechanical Engr Solutions
Missile Systems
Raytheon Company

+1 520.545.6995 (office)
+1 520.446.0244 (pager)
+1 520.545.6399 (fax)
-

6221 S Palo Verde Rd
Tucson, AZ 85706-5093 USA
www.raytheon.com

Follow Raytheon On

This message contains information that may be confidential and privileged.
Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive mail for the
addressee), you should not use, copy or disclose to anyone this message or
any information contained in this message. If you have received this
message in error, please so advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete
this message. Thank you for your cooperation.

lococnc

Author

1-Visitor

If the train has indeed left then it would be nice if PTC would announce it
so those of us that are going down the customization road will know if we
are wasting our time or not.

I have some pretty powerful stuff already developed and it will be a deal
killer for us to move to CREO if I can't do the same things I have already
done.

On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 5:06 PM, Patrick S Williams <
-> wrote:

> I understand your frustration but I think the train has already left the
> station on the decision as to what language should be used. PTC must have
> been working on CREO for quite some time. By the time the community hears
> about the change of direction I'm sure much of the decisions have already
> been made.
>
> I just hope that the API is a much better implementation of Pro/TOOLKIT or
> PFC. My complaints about Pro/TOOLKIT is that it's a C API versus a C++ OO
> API. Pro/ENGINEER is written in C++ for sure (it has to be fast, can't be
> Java) so why can't those classes be available in some form to users. PFC is
> slow and complicated to work with. The programmer has to know what factory
> class to use and how to cast the results properly to get the object handle
> they want. Both APIs could use a lot of work in the documentation dept. as
> well. The person in charge of the API at PTC, IMHO, should take the
> experience of the user into account first rather than the experience of
> their internal developers who are supporting it. I know it takes some
> balancing but I really think they could do a better job than they have in
> the past.
>
> *PATRICK S WILLIAMS*
> Information Technology
> Mechanical Engr Solutions
> Missile Systems*
> Raytheon Company*
>
> +1 520.545.6995 (office)
> +1 520.446.0244 (pager)
> +1 520.545.6399 (fax)*
> -* <->
>
> 6221 S Palo Verde Rd
> Tucson, AZ 85706-5093 USA*
> **www.raytheon.com* [image: YouTube]<">http://www.youtube.com/user/raytheoncompany>
> [image: Facebook] <">http://www.facebook.com/Raytheon> [image: LinkedIn]<">http://www.linkedin.com/companies/raytheon>
> [image: Dual Band podcasts] <">http://www.raytheon.com/newsroom/podcasts>
>
> [image: Raytheon Sustainability]
> *
> This message contains information that may be confidential and privileged.
> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive mail for the
> addressee), you should not use, copy or disclose to anyone this message or
> any information contained in this message. If you have received this message
> in error, please so advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete this
> message. Thank you for your cooperation.*
>
>
> From: Michael Gamber <-> To: Patrick S Williams
> <-> Cc: Joe Kent <jkent@rdleverage.com>,
> ProE Customization List <-> Date: 11/11/2010 03:41
> PM Subject: [proecus] - RE: Worried that I am on the edge of the universe
> all alone

dandersonjr

1-Visitor

Just a couple of thoughts,

On soap box

Just like all Microsoft apps, there needs to be a free api dev environment.
Look at excel and word vb macros.
Pro/e macros don't even come close to the power of theses macros. And that
environment needs to be open source.
If it's not PTC will take a hit just like Microsoft will in the upcoming few
years. Android, first cell phones then PC's.

Our company went with a non PTC pdm system a few years ago. I was pro PTC at
the time.
Having dealt with PTC not quickly responding to our needs and incorporating
functionality that would save us time and money.
They seem to just want to milk things out. I like how they say features are
new when they have been in the software
for a year or two and they just make a minor tweak to the function L

PTC

Give us the real tools we needed yesterday, today, and tomorrow to us today.
Not 2 years or 10 years milking out things you have been.
Look at what ptc's a cad system with fea, mechanism, surface, pdm cost to
day if you were to buy it as an individual and the maintenance cost.
Trying to compete with some off shore houses is not fun with what you are
doing today.

So Shape Up or Ship Out.
I have no problem moving to another software manufacture to stay competitive
and get the tools I need today.
It's a very weak economy and I don't see it getting any better soon,
Possibly worse.

Off soap box

Don A
on pro/e since release 11 or earlier it's been a long time

bfrandsen

10-Marble

As the whole Windchill suite of products are Java based a Creo Java API seems obvious as well as the C++ API.

Not sure about the VB. Might have been thrown in due to PTC's close relations with Microsoft. Only runs asynchronous.

The WebLink API is only valid in the embedded browser running in the same memory space. So the new options in Creo elements/Pro to run the browser in seperate memory space or use Firefox effectively disables WebLink.

I see VB and WebLink as very weak candidates for surviving the Creo transition and only have a few WebLink applications to reinvent.

If PTC want to licens the Java API they definately have to throw in the full functionality as we have in Pro/TOOLKIT today and even extend it to cover much more of the functionality availablethrough the interactive UI.

Perhaps these new APIs could be role based as well, so you only get the functionality availble in the apps you use.

Bjarne Frandsen

In Reply to Patrick Williams:

The Customization TC has discussed this very topic at length with PTC and
basically it comes down to Joe's point. Pro/TOOLKIT and it's advanced
capabilities over the PFC APIs is a revenue stream of license purchases
and maintenance which amounts to a significant dollar figure. However;
this argument will soon be over. With the CREO product, PTC is changing
it's direction on APIs and they won't be supporting the 4 APIs that
currently exist today (Pro/TOOLKIT, J-Link, WebLink, VB API). They will
only be supporting a single API which will reduce and consolidate their
efforts of development and support. There are two sides to this coin.

1) User's who extensively use the APIs that are going away will have to
migrate their programs and possibly be paying for new licenses of the
supported API.
2) The community will get much better support and development activities
because of the consolidation of effort.

I, for one, am in favor of this move because the TC has for years
complained about the lag of support in the APIs for functionality that was
readily available in the standard UI. Hopefully with the CREO
architecture, ALL of the applications will be built on top of this API
much like a .NET Framework or JRE. It definitely coincides with the claim
that CREO is open, per Brian Shepard in the CREO launch webcast.

PATRICK S WILLIAMS
Information Technology
Mechanical Engr Solutions
Missile Systems
Raytheon Company

+1 520.545.6995 (office)
+1 520.446.0244 (pager)
+1 520.545.6399 (fax)
-

6221 S Palo Verde Rd
Tucson, AZ 85706-5093 USA
www.raytheon.com

Follow Raytheon On

This message contains information that may be confidential and privileged.
Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive mail for the
addressee), you should not use, copy or disclose to anyone this message or
any information contained in this message. If you have received this
message in error, please so advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete
this message. Thank you for your cooperation.

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