Managing your Windchill

[msteffke]

I'm curious as to how many companies out there manage their own
Windchill Intralink systems, as opposed to hiring it out. Was your
training effective enough? Been relying on calls to our implimention
providers, and to PTC. I have never seen a system like this that no
one seems to fully understand.


Mark Steffke
Engineering System Administrator
The Delfield Company


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[RichardBorders]

After hiring somone to install Intralink 9.1 and migrating our 3.4 data we are attempting to manage our own Windchill environment.

The training in no way was effective enough. But that was not the fault of the company that did the training,they just followed the PTC training plan.

[BenLoosli]

PTC does not have an official training class on installing and configuring Windchill. They would rather keep that data secret and charge you outlandish fees for their GSO to come in and do the implementation. There are some VARs who have hired ex-PTC people who have the knowledge to do it.

The system administration and business administration training classes cover the basics, but they don't cover the details needed to implement and configure Windchill fully. The material MAY be in the manuals, but the convoluted structure of them makes it very hard to follow. You almost have to read the manuals on a computer because every fifth line is a link that jumps you to a different section or manual.

Thank you,

Ben H. Loosli
USEC, INC.

[dgschaefer]

I absolutely agree with Ben's conclusion. Having just come from
attempting a PDMLink trial on our own, I can say it's very difficult.
The docs are a nightmare; I must have spent 40-60 hours poring over
docs. There's a lot of info out there, to PTCs credit, but it's such a
mess and scattered over so many docs it's nearly unusable. Part of it
is that WC is a huge and diverse package with thousands of different
configuration possibilities so it's not simple software. But, in
typical PTC fashion, it seems that there's been little attempt to
simplify the process for DIY customers.



We've realized that even if we did pay 5 figures for install and
configuration, if it ever went down we'd be dead in the water and at the
mercy of our VAR or PTC to get back up and running. It's not a dead
issue for us yet, but it's in the ICU and the prognosis is not good.



Doug Schaefer

[RichardBorders]

Ben,


I fully agree,I took both the System an Business Admin classes and left
there totally confused. I was in no way prepared to install and configure
Intralink 9.1 and migrate our 3.4 data.
That is why we had to pay over 100 k to have a VAR come in and do it.



Thank You,




Richard Borders
CAD Manager - Komatsu America Corp.
North America Research and Development Division

US Technical Center 1
Chattanooga Mfg Operation
Newberry Mfg. Operation
(423) 757-0364





RE: [proesys] - RE: Managing your Windchill

Loosli, Ben H
to:
Richard Borders, -
02/29/2012 09:01 AM




PTC does not have an official training class on installing and configuring
Windchill. They would rather keep that data secret and charge you
outlandish fees for their GSO to come in and do the implementation. There
are some VARs who have hired ex-PTC people who have the knowledge to do
it.

The system administration and business administration training classes
cover the basics, but they don’t cover the details needed to implement and
configure Windchill fully. The material MAY be in the manuals, but the
convoluted structure of them makes it very hard to follow. You almost have
to read the manuals on a computer because every fifth line is a link that
jumps you to a different section or manual.

Thank you,

Ben H. Loosli
USEC, INC.

[DonSenchuk]

This part is one of the most frustrating things I've run into so far. Many of their instructions will start off good for 3 or 4 steps, giving specific instruction on what to do or what commands to use, then the 5th step might as well read, "Now, finish the work." And then it moves into the next chapter.

Ok, that's an exaggeration, but not by much.

In Reply to Ben Loosli:

The system administration and business administration training classes cover the basics, but they don't cover the details needed to implement and configure Windchill fully. The material MAY be in the manuals, but the convoluted structure of them makes it very hard to follow. You almost have to read the manuals on a computer because every fifth line is a link that jumps you to a different section or manual.

[msteffke]

Agree. When I started this thread I was referring to administrating as
'after the upgrade'. We had a VAR come in and do the migration and
setup. Now I'm left babysitting a system. People here call me the
administrator, but to be honest I can barely scratch the surface on how
to do anything systemwise on this. I feel like a pretender, unconfident
I could solve any issue myself.


Mark Steffke
Engineering System Administrator
The Delfield Company
Manitowoc Foodservice
T 989.775.9215 or 989.773.7981, ext 12484
Integrity, Commitment to Stakeholders, and Passion for Excellence

[gchampoux]

We (me) took the cheap route by doing all the implementation and migration (from 3.4) ourselves, and used PTC University online training only. It was a long process (a year) to learn all the ins and outs, but I have a much better understanding of WIndchill because of it. I concur that PTC’s manuals and training materials are terrible, especially in regard to customization (triggers/listeners).
My biggest complaint is that nearly all of the manuals assume you are using PDMLink, whereas we deployed Windchill Intralink 9.1 for PDM only. The result is that we wasted a lot of time configuring things that are not applicable to Intralink 9.1. Similarly, much of the documentation describes obsolete legacy stuff that should no longer be used, but is not clearly stated. Again, much time was wasted.

Gerry Champoux
Williams International
Walled Lake, MI

In Reply to Richard Borders:

I fully agree,I took both the System an Business Admin classes and left
there totally confused. I was in no way prepared to install and configure
Intralink 9.1 and migrate our 3.4 data.
That is why we had to pay over 100 k to have a VAR come in and do it.

[Lohbauer]

Mark,

I’m in the same boat. We had the migration done, was provided good mentoring, then I was left with a new system to manage our Intellectual Property. I think I peed my pants a little when the reality struck me. But there are many resources out there to help you. This group, for one. Also PTC Tech support has been a big help for me. I’ve asked some pretty basic questions of them and they’ve come through, not as timely as the PTCUsers exploder but it is a resource. Also network, network, network.

Ben and Richard are correct about the Business Admin course too; it is full of good stuff if you can get through it. I’m sure War and Peace and Finnegan’s Wake are fabulous too.

Hang in there and keep reading and talking to people.

[BenLoosli]

I originally replied to Mark directly after his first exploder message yesterday. This is what I put in that message:

This is the third company that I have been the system administrator for their Windchill PDMLink implementation. Started installing Windchill in 2003 with Windchill 6.2.6 and then moved to Windchill 7. There is a lot that is not documented in the setup of any Windchill implementation. I have tried to document what I can along the way, but it gets frustrating to try to keep up between help desk issues with PTC on some aspect of their code failing. I have done 3-6 installs here of 9.0, 9.1 and 10.0 on development systems to learn more of what all is required. I still don’t have it all down.

Training is only from an administrator viewpoint. I don’t know of anyone who trains from the system installer and setup view. PTC either wants you to use their Global Services or a VAR that has been trained. My VAR, TriStar, has some people who really know Windchill and its inner workings, but I can’t use them for my production system, since it is on a classified network. I do open a lot of calls with PTC whenever I have an issue. My unclassified test systems help, but they aren’t duplicates of the production environment and never can be when it comes to the amount of data.

People on the PTC/User exploder that, in my opinion, have a good understanding of the Windchill process are Mike Lockwood at Alcon Labs and Al Anderson at Solar Turbines.

I would also add Gerry Champoux at Williams International as one who has learned the ins and outs of the system. As with any system as complex as Windchill, not everyone knows each portion to its fullest. We all use it a little differently so we have different modules that get our attention and intense study.

PTC Tech Support has been great in answering mundane questions. They usually get back with something that works, but it is like implementation instructions. They tell you how to fix it or what command to run, but they don’t tell you why to run it or what it does. WebEx is a tool for them to see what you are doing, but doesn’t help when they can’t have access to your system.

Thank you,

Ben H. Loosli
USEC, INC.

[breiter]

100% agree with everyone else, I am STILL in the process of migrating
our 3.4 system to Intralink 10.0/PDMLink/whats the difference. I took
the PTC University class also and it seemed to go ok until I realized
most of the class was dealing with PDMLink. It has been over a year
since I started this project and honestly feel no better about it than I
did when I first began. I keep thinking it will get better but its not.
I am 98% thru the first trial migration but I have forgotten every
little thing I had to do to get to this point. (Use this TPI here, no
use this TPI for that) So I will have to relearn everything again to get
to production migration.



I think it's crazy to have to pay someone 50k+ to migrate to a new
system and pay the same amount in maintenance a year. But it would have
been done by now and probably would have saved in the long run. I guess
I'm the idiot.



Just another day in PTC Paradise!

[MikeLockwood]

Appreciate the good press below… ☺

We’ve been fortunate in that our management has supported (for 10+ years now) being a bit patient while we’ve been able to “come up to speed” on each area in turn, and has supported having an excellent admin team with a lot of freedom to act. Also though, we’ve invested pretty much all hours that otherwise would constitute a real life studying manuals and guides / playing the system, etc. to get to this point. Feels like “the Big Bang Theory” at my house my wife says.

My requests to PTC continue to be:

A)

- Fully document the simplest possible cases* with the most common hardware, OS, configurations, etc.

- Prove these out fully by having several people try to use it; edit and clarify as needed

- Then and only then, come back and add pointers to all the possible additional complexities, branches, what-if’s, etc., and put these in various addendums, appendixes, TPI’s, etc, etc.


B) Do above assuming that the customer will need to create an actual step-by-step procedure; provide an editable (e.g. MS Word) example, for the user to save-as and then edit. Yes, this pretty much cuts out the high $ consultants, but it’s the right thing to do if there is a commitment to support the DIY’ers.

* For example:

- Install Windchill 9.1 M050 with Oracle 11g on a two-machine system with Oracle on the 1st machine, PDMLink only. This entire procedure is about 1 ½ pages.

- Install Windchill 10.0 M020 with Oracle 11g on a laptop, PDMLink only. This entire procedure is also about 1 ½ pages.

- Conduct a test upgrade from the 9.1 system listed above (with total data consisting of one Document, no configurations, no customizations) to the 10.0 system listed above. This entire procedure is about 3 pages. We did exactly this to start prep for Windchill 10.

The info is truly scattered over many separate places, and ~95% of it has to do with all the special cases and possible complexities. The hardest part by far is pulling out the core info to do the primary tasks. Our only chance of success to date has been to laboriously collect all the pieces back into one place each time, then create a new document from scratch, starting always with the simplest possible procedure, then gradually building from there one step at a time. All of us went thru school doing exactly this, right? It works.

Note: We’re working closely with PTC on upgrading to 10 now; lots of good results from this effort, truly a success story in the making.

[mmeadows]

I've been implementing Windchill for smaller deploymentsfor a long time and agree with all these statements. That is why I wrote my course: "Applied Windchill 10.0 System Administration". It is a hands-on approach to system administration that really helps new system administrators get past the initial learning curve. It captures step-by-step instructions for installing Windchill and implementing many of the undocumented and lightly documented tips and tricks like named Windchill processes, Windchill launch/shut down/clear cache commands, and configuring system notifications for specific Windchill errors. Students troubleshoot basic server failures and perform preventative system and client configuration to prevent known issues from occurring.

This course really helps new administrators get past the learning curve and greatly improves on-site administrators' confidence in taking over a Windchill system implemented by a reseller or PTC. I found even experienced administrators pick up some new information from the applied course. It really is a necessity for PTC customers who want to do it themselves. I've seen many DIY jobs and they always miss a few production quality implementation and maintenance configuration steps (primarily because of a lack of or overwhelming documentation). These systems run but they could run better and with less manual maintenance.

It can't cover everything related to system administration in three days but it covers the most common configuration, monitoring, and maintenance tasks. I posted a message to the network forum describing Applied Windchill 10.0 System Administration training, complete with syllabus if anyone is interested.

Kind Regards,

Matt Meadows

Solutions Architect
VIRSO Inc
O: 618 937 8115
C: 314 749 8377
E: mmeadows@virsoinc.com

[DamianCastillo]

Great.

I feel all warm and fuzzy about Implementing Windchill 10 here in April. I will be the System and Business Administrator, but the install will be done by Tristar.

I would love to learn the install process to support ourselves down the road, but it sounds like it will take a lot of time and practice to pull it off.

Thanks for the great information on this everyone.

"Too many people walk around like Clark Kent, because they don't realize they can Fly like Superman"

[jzupfer]

As the leader for Windchill Publications, I’m grateful for your feedback and committed to improving our documentation to better meet your needs.

In regard to this thread, Jeff Zemsky and I hosted a session at the Technical Committee meetings held in Needham this January in order to discuss process flows that could be included in a “quick reference” for Windchill administrators; as Mike proposed, that quick reference guide would then link to more detailed information in the Windchill Help Center. We are planning to survey attendees in order to set priorities among the list of business and system administration process flows they identified for inclusion in the guide.

During the session, we had a wide-ranging discussion of administrator documentation, and Jeff and I left with a list of action items that include ongoing TC activities, including a request to return with more information about our roadmap for Windchill documentation and the Windchill Help Center.

In Reply to Mike Lockwood:

Appreciate the good press below… ☺

We’ve been fortunate in that our management has supported (for 10+ years now) being a bit patient while we’ve been able to “come up to speed” on each area in turn, and has supported having an excellent admin team with a lot of freedom to act. Also though, we’ve invested pretty much all hours that otherwise would constitute a real life studying manuals and guides / playing the system, etc. to get to this point. Feels like “the Big Bang Theory” at my house my wife says.

My requests to PTC continue to be:

A)

- Fully document the simplest possible cases* with the most common hardware, OS, configurations, etc.

- Prove these out fully by having several people try to use it; edit and clarify as needed

- Then and only then, come back and add pointers to all the possible additional complexities, branches, what-if’s, etc., and put these in various addendums, appendixes, TPI’s, etc, etc.


B) Do above assuming that the customer will need to create an actual step-by-step procedure; provide an editable (e.g. MS Word) example, for the user to save-as and then edit. Yes, this pretty much cuts out the high $ consultants, but it’s the right thing to do if there is a commitment to support the DIY’ers.

* For example:

- Install Windchill 9.1 M050 with Oracle 11g on a two-machine system with Oracle on the 1st machine, PDMLink only. This entire procedure is about 1 ½ pages.

- Install Windchill 10.0 M020 with Oracle 11g on a laptop, PDMLink only. This entire procedure is also about 1 ½ pages.

- Conduct a test upgrade from the 9.1 system listed above (with total data consisting of one Document, no configurations, no customizations) to the 10.0 system listed above. This entire procedure is about 3 pages. We did exactly this to start prep for Windchill 10.

The info is truly scattered over many separate places, and ~95% of it has to do with all the special cases and possible complexities. The hardest part by far is pulling out the core info to do the primary tasks. Our only chance of success to date has been to laboriously collect all the pieces back into one place each time, then create a new document from scratch, starting always with the simplest possible procedure, then gradually building from there one step at a time. All of us went thru school doing exactly this, right? It works.

Note: We’re working closely with PTC on upgrading to 10 now; lots of good results from this effort, truly a success story in the making.

[lbalthazor-2]

I have one question to add to Mark's original set of questions.

When defining a Statement of Work with a VAR, do you recommend going with a fixed rate cost or an hourly rate and what are your reasons for choosing one over the other?

Thank you,

Lee Balthazor

Graco Inc

[bockpa]

I also agree with you all about the difficulty in learning Windchill from
the Business Admin and System Admin perspectives. We also paid the 100K+
to go from Intralink 3.3 to PDMlink 9.0.

Now we are contemplating going from 9.0 to 10.0.

I don't understand why Windchill is so complex. The VAR that installed
9.0 bragged that Windchill is the largest Java application in the world,
as far as codebase size. It is in the several gigabyte range. I should
have run away screaming. Either it is bad/bloated programming or it is
intentionally complicated as you guys suggest.

Sincerely

Paul Bock
Avox Systems

[DamianCastillo]

I am new to Windchill and have not been through the training for Business Admin. or System Admin.

PTC claims that Windchill 10 is easy to use and administer.

Is this true?

"Too many people walk around like Clark Kent, because they don't realize they can Fly like Superman"

[BenLoosli]

Easy is always a relative term. 🙂

What are you (or PTC) comparing WC 10 against?

It is easier to use than WC9.x.
It is harder to use than Intralink3.x.

It may be a little easier to administer than WC9.x.
It is a lot harder to administer than Intralink3.x.

It is still complex and hard to initially configure.
It is a whole magnitude harder to configure than Intralink3.x.
The install process is a lot easier than it was for WC7 and somewhat easier than WC9.x.

Your mileage may vary, but WC is not in the economy class.


Thank you,

Ben H. Loosli
USEC, INC.

[DamianCastillo]

Thanks for the great response Ben.

I guess I just have to dive in and see what happens. I am starting off with Windchill 10 and I don't know if this would be an advantage or disadvantage for me since I have nothing to compare it too.

In Reply to Ben Loosli:

Easy is always a relative term. 🙂

What are you (or PTC) comparing WC 10 against?

It is easier to use than WC9.x.
It is harder to use than Intralink3.x.

It may be a little easier to administer than WC9.x.
It is a lot harder to administer than Intralink3.x.

It is still complex and hard to initially configure.
It is a whole magnitude harder to configure than Intralink3.x.
The install process is a lot easier than it was for WC7 and somewhat easier than WC9.x.

Your mileage may vary, but WC is not in the economy class.


Thank you,

Ben H. Loosli
USEC, INC.