Multi-assembly repeat regions

[kwsauter]

Proe has the ability to show multiple assemblies in a repeat region BOM.
For those who are aware of and understand this capability, do you use
it? You can't use relations, only &rpt.qty in the columns, and bulk
items always show as qty:1. In addition to that limitation, I
frequently run into situations where I'll get two or three items showing
correctly and other items showing up in as many different rows as there
are assemblies despite the fact that the part number parameter is
exactly the same for each of them. That problem baffles me. IOW, it is
problematic to use this capability.

Does anyone actually use this capability, or is it such an incomplete
and unpredictable feature that using it is essentially a useless
exercise? We don't use it because bulk item quantities have to show up
as "AR", and we end up using relations to get the correct quantities to
show up in the specific places necessary.

Is this just a 'half-feature' from PTC that is essentially useless?

Ken Sauter
DRS Reconnaissance Surveillance and Target Acquisition
Infrared Technologies Division
PO Box 740188
Dallas, TX 75374
469-221-5430
-

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[kwsauter]

A few weeks ago, I sent out this e-mail:

Proe has the ability to show multiple assemblies in a repeat region BOM.
For those who are aware of and understand this capability, do you use
it? You can't use relations, only &rpt.qty in the columns, and bulk
items always show as qty:1. In addition to that limitation, I frequently
run into situations where I'll get two or three items showing correctly
and other items showing up in as many different rows as there are
assemblies despite the fact that the part number parameter is exactly
the same for each of them. That problem baffles me. IOW, it is
problematic to use this capability.
Does anyone actually use this capability, or is it such an incomplete
and unpredictable feature that using it is essentially a useless
exercise? We don't use it because bulk item quantities have to show up
as "AR", and we end up using relations to get the correct quantities to
show up in the specific places necessary.
Is this just a 'half-feature' from PTC that is essentially useless?

I got only five responses, so I take it that not very many people use
this capability, and less even know about it. PTC certainly doesn't
talk about it much, if at all. These are the responses:

-------
We use it for cabling BOM.
-------
Ken, I lobbied for this feature for ever it seemed when I worked at
Corning Cable Systems, as such they had huge product families. To say I
have been disappointed with the implementation is an understatement.
Unfortunately as with so may other product enhancements PTC as you
eluded to more often than not comes up with a "half feature" IMHO in
this case it resides more with the repeat region table function as a
whole. While yes the tables are very powerful and can do a lot of things
very well, more often than not I find you have to be a programmer to
understand how to use them.

It's SOP for PTC..... remember when the assembly module got "upgraded"
"lip stick on a pig" to the wildfire interface ? It took 3 revs for
sheet metal form features to get the new interface and the excuse was
well that is hard coded into the module blah blah blah Mike Campbell PTC
vice president. They seem to try to be responsive to customers but only
to a certain extent. Then they come back and try to patch it in future
releases to what it should have been in the first place. I personally
don't feel PTC does a good job and never has in listening to what the
customers really need the software to do !

-------
Ken
We use the functionality, but do not use bulk items, so do not have that
restriction. Repeat region relations can be used, but not for the
quantity column, which is where you need it. You may want to try a
partially live/partially dead table, i.e. filter out the bulk items from
the live table, then add them back in as dead text in rows above (or
below) the repeat region.
We have seen the issue where a part will show up on multiple rows. The
issue seems to be caused by missing parameters. The missing parameters
may be in a different part than the one which is listed on multiple
rows. The issue could also be caused by a parameter of the same name,
but different type in different parts.
In general, we have been able to resolve the issue of the same part on
multiple rows by making sure that our standard parameters are in every
component in the assemblies.
The other restriction you did not mention is you can't use repeat region
driven BOM balloons with a multi-quantity column repeat region. If that
is a requirement, then you are out of luck.
FYI...We are on WF2
Jeff
-------
Can you send me a picture of what you mean? I think we do what you are
asking but we use relations, filtering etc. We do not use bulk items
anymore, we use empty parts instead (this way we can family table
greases, loc tite etc)
If you mean that you want to not show the assembly part numbers and have
the bom combine all the parts under the assemblies and only show the
parts that make up the assemblies then no we do not do that nor would we
request a feature like that from PTC.
-----
For those who don't understand what this capability supposedly lets you
do, this is a picture of what I'm talking about:
1 7 10007 HUBCAP 3
1 6 10006 HUBCAP 2
1 5 10005 HUBCAP 1
1 1 1 4 10004 SPINDLE
1 1 1 3 10003 BOLTS
1 1 1 2 10002 TIRE
1 1 1 1 10001 WHEEL
-003 -002 -001 ITEM PART NO. DESCRIPTION NOTES


If I can automate this capability, WITH relations in the qty columns, it
would be great. I'm experimenting with other possible ways to make this
work, but with no luck so far. This is a very unreliable feature.
***
For those who are unaware of this capability, just below Model/Rep in
the Table>Repeat Region menu, there is Column Model/Rep. Once you have
created your repeat region and set the parameters for the columns, AND
set the parameter for each of the qty columns (the -001, -002, and -003
columns shown above) as &rpt.qty (no other parameter makes this
work--relations are worthless here), Then with Table>Repeat
Region>Column Model/Rep set the appropriate model for each qty column,
Then you get what is shown above. That much works. I believe the
response above about making all the parameters match to get the
appropriate physical quantities on only one line for each item. It's
the total lack of ability to use relations in those qty columns that
kills this feature, AND the fact that you can't create balloons.
<<picture (metafile)=">>

This will be one of those things that will take 15 years to get a
response on. So the feature is essentially useless, except for very
limited applications. For those who are interested, SW has a very
useful implementation of this feature that works quite well. PTC: HINT,
HINT!!!


Ken Sauter
DRS Reconnaissance Surveillance and Target Acquisition
Infrared Technologies Division
PO Box 740188
Dallas, TX 75374
469-221-5430
-

NOTICE: This e-mail transmission (and/or the attachments accompanying
it) may contain confidential or proprietary information belonging to DRS
Technologies or the sender. The information is only for the use of the
intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby
notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or the taking of any
action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly
prohibited. Any unauthorized interception of this transmission is
illegal under the law. If you have received this transmission in error,
please promptly notify the sender by reply e-mail, and then destroy all
copies of the transmission.

"This (document/presentation) may contain technical data as defined in
the International Traffic In Arms Regulations (ITAR) 22 CFR 120.10.
Export of this material is restricted by the Arms Export Control Act (22
U.S.C. 2751 et seq.) and may not be exported to foreign persons without
prior written approval from the U.S. Department of State."

[TrainStopper]

I apologize for not responding, I did not respond because I felt that
PTC will not fix this so why bother.

Got nothing good to say, don't say anything at all...

But that is not the right attitude, and it's something I would use if it
worked, so I will state my situation:



We have piles of AutoCAD drawings using multiple assembly repeat
regions, I'm slowly converting them over to Pro/E.

Most of our assemblies also have bulk items and repeat region relations
to adjust quantities.

Many of our assemblies must show multiple configurations on the same
sheet.

I am required to show quantity balloons so the customer knows how much
of what goes where.

All of our assembly drawings must be submitted in paper form to our
customers for contract review and they get stamped with agency
approvals.



Pro/Detail can not handle these situations parametrically so I have to
perform workarounds.

The problems with workarounds:

They expose me to errors because the result is not parametric and will
not automatically reflect quantity changes.

They create land-mines for whoever does revisions in years to come, how
are they supposed to know what was fiddled with to make it look right?



Currently I make individual drawings for each assembly.

This allows most of what I need to be handled parametrically, although
multiple configurations require hiding extra balloons on layers to get
parametric quantity balloons right.

However, it increases the number of drawings I need to control, so it
exposes me to additional errors and variations between like drawings.



I also sent in an enhancement request, c'mon - I have to promote my
issues while I'm at it 😉 , to be able to split report quantity
balloons on October 5th, below, still no activity.



Pro/Detail and Tables need a lot of fixing/improving and I hope it will
happen in my lifetime.

There is a great opportunity here to do something good for the users.

Plenty of time to get 'er done in WF6?



Good luck, Ken, but I don't know how to motivate PTC or the Technical
Committee (do they still exist?), even to have a discussion, does
anyone?



Walt Weiss



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