Pro/CABLING - WildFire 5 - User Feedback Requested.

[aoler]

PTC & the Routed Systems Technical Committee is looking for Feedback about the NEW Cabling in WildFire 5.

Please provide us with feedback (positive & negative) so future enhancements can be made.

Remember, this is just for WildFire 5 Cabling.

Thanks!

Aron Oler
Routed Systems T/C Chair

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[Marshdamp]

Prior to WF5 we could insert an offset location on an existing segment
and select a coordinate system as the 'from' and 'direction' reference.
The system would then ask for the x, y, and z offsets but would also
default to values that would put the location exactly where we
originally clicked on the segment. This allows us to add locations to a
harness with out distorting its current shape. In WF5 the location
defaults to 0, 0, 0 and the system gives no indication of what x, y, and
z values would put the location close to where the segment currently is.
This results in a giant loop that goes through 0, 0, 0 and is a major
pain to drag back to where it should be. This will make harness routing
much more difficult for us when we do move to WF5.



/Michael

[dbowles]

Not on WF 5 yet, but hoping they do not remove the offset function

Douglas K. Bowles
Advanced Systems Harn/Des
520-665-7082 Office
520-490-9395 Cell
-


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[JimBarrettSmith]

Michael





Why are you adding an offset location if you do not want to change the
shape of the harness? Why add a standard location?



If you do not want assembly references then simply route your harness
referencing a shrinkwrap / copied geom. Once the harness is complete
delete the shrinkwrap / copied geom and convert all the locations to be
offset from a global csys



Thanks



Jim

[glfgy741]

I'll third that....going to 0,0,0 is a complete waste.

Just throw a point in and drag it to your location then redefine your location to that point....

[JimBarrettSmith]

The offset option has not been removed it is simply a little different see the attached movie



Thanks



Jim

[JimBarrettSmith]

David



Can you confirm that using offset is to ensure that there are no
assembly references?



Thanks



Jim

[glfgy741]

I'm going to jump in and say that it takes much more time to create shrinkwraps and/or copy geoms than to add a location related to the geometry then add an offset location nearby and keeping the cable the same..

Not to mention the lighter weight of the model...because we all know the important of size and speed...

[frederick.burke]

I thought this was an old trick that only the old school cable dogs knew.

When a cable location is failing it is usually very difficult to tell where the failure is coming from.

I will often reroute a failed location to 0,0,0. Later, after I graduate from failure mode, I can

remove that location and my cable will recover. If you have multiple cables in an installation, this

is much easier than identifying where that location should be.

Best regards,

Frederick Burke

[amedina]

I like the point thing, I've used it before and it works. Basically you are
re-defining the failed location. Some times locations fail because of
external references that unfortunately you made and also forgot to open.
Those will show up in red. That way you can tell which locations you need to
fix by adding points. well some times you need more than just points like
maybe two points and a line to make a straight piece.

regards,

Alfonso


On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 9:36 AM, Burke, Frederick W (AS)

[Marshdamp]

It's for that and for the fact that it creates a location that is
extremely easy to drag around. Here's how we do it:



Create a harness assembly and assemble it to the vehicle. Activate the
harness in the context of the vehicle and create coordinate systems
where all the connectors go. Assemble all the connectors to the
coordinate systems. Create 2 offset locations and a network segment off
the back of each connector with the offset locations being referenced to
the connector coordinate system. Create network segments between the
various network stubs on the back of the connectors. Quickly add offset
locations to the new segments and drag them so the harness routes
through the vehicle where we want it to. For us this is significantly
faster and easier then fooling around with copy geometry. We often use
the same harness in two or more vehicles. With this method we can save
a copy of the original harness, assemble it to a different vehicle and
quickly drag the locations around to fit the different configuration. No
need to create a bunch of copied surface. Another reason for doing it
this way is that vehicle harnesses tend to route through space and next
to multiple components that often have complex surfaces (engines,
casting, etc) We are not routing wires in a nice simple box with 3 or 4
flat surfaces where we can pick locations on a surface.



Regards,

Michael

[JimBarrettSmith]

Ok guys this was exactly what I was looking for a good healthy debate on
the changes and it is the purpose of the meeting, to find out what
assumptions were incorrect.



I was under the impression that you were all following the approved top
down techniques and this is why in wildfire 4.0 we designed the convert
to offset option. I watched customers use the offset command and it
pained me to see how long it took them. Thus we came up with the idea
of "convert to offset" which allowed a user to place locations down very
quickly by selecting on surfaces and creating lots of references. Then
when the harness was complete you were able to delete the references and
have cabling design automatically create the offset locations for you in
the exact location where you wanted them.



The attached movie shows the functionality.



And to be clear I hear and understand your complaint and will address it
but I would be interested if anyone could quantify why the method in the
movie is deemed unacceptable either in time or in time and picks
especially if you are using top down design techniques



Thanks

Jim

[swschultz]

I personally can't say that I know of any customers that are following some
officially "approved" set of top down design methodologies. In the field
requirements for what really works for TDD can and normally are quite
different than some set of procedures developed in a lab.



Best Regards,



Scott W. Schultz

Principal Consultant

3D Relief Inc.

3700 Willow Creek Drive

Suite 200

Raleigh, NC 27604

(919)259-0610

[glfgy741]

When and if Lockheed goes to 4.0, this sounds perfect!!!! Great addition....

[JeffND]

Jim,



I use the insert offset location a lot, to tweak the harness. Very often,
the harness only needs slight adjustment to go around a component. So I
like to start with adding a location at the exact spot where the harness
is currently, and then just slightly alter the dims, to tweak the harness
to route around some component.



Setting the default to 0,0,0 would be bad.



I do also use the top down methodology with copy geoms. I leave them as
copy geoms within a skeleton. I have had good luck with this practice.
Must make sure to set copy geoms as independent.



Regards,
Jeff Roeber

Applied Engineering

[dbowles]

Jim,

I was not speaking of Routing the paths of cables via offset csys. But
the ability to add a location via
csys for such oddities as a needed service loop or even to keep the bundle
from deforming over a long stretch.
And when adding such a location in free space keeping the xyz location
given from the default csys.
I do not ever use copy geoms in skeletons, because of the dependencies
(even when set as independent) always create independent surfaces.
Currently working WF 4 just keeping a heads up for WF 5. Looks like the
function is still in place from your video.


Douglas K. Bowles
Advanced Systems Harn/Des
520-665-7082 Office
520-490-9395 Cell
-


PRIVACY ACT NOTICE: This communication may contain privileged or other
Official information. If you are not the intended recipient or believe
that you have received this communication in error, please reply to the
sender indicating that fact and delete the copy you received. It is a
violation of Federal Law to print, copy, retransmit, disseminate, or
otherwise use this information without prior authorization.