Exploder rules

[ptc-593619]

So in other words, you want some of the rules but only the ones you
agree with? When you sign on to the exploder, these rules are spelled
out distinctly. In all walks of society, we have to abide by rules. As a
European, I find the affected "horror" over Janet Jackson and the
"nipplegate" incident faintly amusing but would I let my wife on the
beach topless, I don't think so - because the "rules" in the USA don't
allow it. (As and aside, if my wife wanted to go topless, I would have
ABSOLUTELY no say in it anyway). So we have to abide by the rules set
for whatever we're doing otherwise we'd have everybody doing their own
thing which is precisely what Rick - in his extremely nice way - is
trying to avoid. One would hope that these rules have been carefully
thought out and are of benefit to all but IF a change is warranted,
let's get them changed by mutual consent and not by mavericks breaking
them.

Richard

[dakeb]

Erm, but Richard you just broke the rules yourself!

a) by replying directly to the group
b) by discussing janet Jacksons finer points
c) by discussing your wife's bathing preferences
d) by discussing whether or not you have any control over your wifes
behaviour.

Rick must be groaning.

In an extremely nice way of course 🙂

[ptc-353751]

I'm interpreting the rules since they're not 100% clear. Specifically, I'm
deciding that my reply might be beneficial to the group and hence will
reply to the list.

As already stated, not many people post summaries, so what we end up with
are an archive of messages consisting of lots and lots of questions and
only occassional answers. Why ?? 'cause the answers went directly to the
original poster. In an extreme example, you could have different people
asking the same question one day after the other. If replies to the 1st
question went to the list, persons 2 and 3 wouldn't have needed to repeat
their questions.

I do understand this is a "private" list run by some person or
organization and that they make the rules, but that doesn't mean all of
the rules are perfect and will never change, nor need changing. Since
creating these rules, has "Rick" ever commented on things like this ??

Regards





"Black, Richard A" <->
Sent by: -
11/15/2004 08:42 AM
Please respond to "Black, Richard A"

[big_jim]

Richard;
I believe that what all these postings are trying to accomplish is to get
Rick to reconsider this rule and approve postings to the general board with
answers. I too find it very helpful to have all answers posted directly to
the board and often look forward to seeing answers to other peoples
questions. Now if I can just figure out how to set up filters this line of
messages will be helpful as well 🙂
Jim

[unknown1]

If PTC/User would switch the format of these groups from e-mail lists to
message boards/forums, they would be MUCH easier to categorize, scan,
search, and moderate.

E-mail lists are really very cumbersome from just about every aspect --
the only real advantage of e-mail lists is for folks who have e-mail but
don't have internet access. E-mail lists are so 1995 -- this IS 2004,
isn't it?.

Some might prefer e-mail lists because they send you messages in
"real-time", i.e., every time there is a question or a response. However,
for everyone person that likes lists because of that, there are 4 others
who hate them for the same reason.

Eric Hill
Varian Semiconductor Equipment Associates, Inc.
Tel (978)282-2919
-



Hall Stevenson <->
Sent by: -
11/15/2004 09:16 AM
Please respond to
Hall Stevenson <->


To
"PTC/USER Model Discussion" <->
cc

Subject
[model] Re: Exploder rules






I'm interpreting the rules since they're not 100% clear. Specifically, I'm

deciding that my reply might be beneficial to the group and hence will
reply to the list.

As already stated, not many people post summaries, so what we end up with
are an archive of messages consisting of lots and lots of questions and
only occassional answers. Why ?? 'cause the answers went directly to the
original poster. In an extreme example, you could have different people
asking the same question one day after the other. If replies to the 1st
question went to the list, persons 2 and 3 wouldn't have needed to repeat
their questions.

I do understand this is a "private" list run by some person or
organization and that they make the rules, but that doesn't mean all of
the rules are perfect and will never change, nor need changing. Since
creating these rules, has "Rick" ever commented on things like this ??

Regards





"Black, Richard A" <->
Sent by: -
11/15/2004 08:42 AM
Please respond to "Black, Richard A"

[unknown1]

Ditto! Filters are a pain!!

I can set them up.. But they never seem to work! My Out of Office
responses filters out of the inbox half the time. (of course having the
subject line in German or some other language doesn't help). I deleted
my other filters because they never worked!

[wgerber]

Sorry to pull a "Clinton", but I think the question becomes, "It depends
on your definition of the word Summary."

I personally don't interpret the "Summary" as being..."paste all of your
responses into one e-mail and send it to the list." Maybe that's what
it means, but if so, how do you decide when you've received enough
sufficient e-mails to say, "That's all of them." Realistically, when a
Summary is sent, it's usually because a sufficient solution to the
problem was found...and not necessarily containing ALL of the suggested
solutions.

Maybe this is why we don't see as many Summaries as we would like.
Maybe there's too many attitudes of, "I don't have the time to put
together a Summary e-mail. If someone else wants to know the solution,
they can contact me or search the Exploder Archive." Now I'm NOT
supporting that attitude, but I think we can all agree it exists.

I personally don't think it's too much to ask people to send out a
Summary once they've found a viable solution. It may not be the ONLY
solution...we all know that there's more than one way to do things in
Pro/E. YES, I also have separate e-mail folders for the different
groups I'm subscribed and I have filtering employed, but that doesn't
mean I want to go thru 30+ e-mails in one day to simply hit "Delete".
My support of a Summary is not based on what I do to scan/delete e-mails
in my folders...but based on the greater good for reducing the flow of
e-mails that impacts more than just our own In-box...i.e. all the
Servers at all the companies of the employees of this Exploder along
with the Pro/USER Exploder itself. Besides, is it really that difficult
or time-consuming to send a Summary e-mail?? You spend just as much
time scanning/deleting the e-mails you don't want from this list that
people sent to Everyone instead of the Originator. 🙂

I fully agree with Rich Black, if the change is warranted, it goes thru
Rick and NOT thru individuals doing there own thing. If you want to do
your own thing...then you'll probably reap the consequences established
by some of the other Rules of this Exploder.

Regards,
Wes Gerber

[ptc-353751]

I *like* this suggestion. As you say though, not everyone has internet
access, just e-mail.... I'm confident that's a minority of members though.

-- You wouldn't have e-mail address harvesting with a message forum (I've
rec'd messages from others that tell me not to forward their response back
to the list because it's make their e-mail address "public", so there's
another benefit)
-- Off-topic questions/answers can simply be deleted.
-- Most importantly, out-of-office messages would be GONE !!!!

Regards






-
Sent by: -
11/15/2004 09:36 AM
Please respond to eric.hill

[fklink]

No one of our designers has internet access. They just have emails ! Only for security (and job) purpose.

We should end up with this discussion.

I believe Rick's intent was to recall the rules with a specific accent on the purpose of this exploder. This is place where there are restrictions on the topics and where people don't want to know how is the weather is in Kuala Lumpur (or Houtsiplou !)

My two cents.

Francois

-----Message d'origine-----
De : - De la part de -
Envoyé : lundi 15 novembre 2004 15:36
À : PTC/USER Model Discussion
Objet : [model] Re: Exploder rules



If PTC/User would switch the format of these groups from e-mail lists to message boards/forums, they would be MUCH easier to categorize, scan, search, and moderate.

E-mail lists are really very cumbersome from just about every aspect -- the only real advantage of e-mail lists is for folks who have e-mail but don't have internet access. E-mail lists are so 1995 -- this IS 2004, isn't it?.

Some might prefer e-mail lists because they send you messages in "real-time", i.e., every time there is a question or a response. However, for everyone person that likes lists because of that, there are 4 others who hate them for the same reason.

Eric Hill
Varian Semiconductor Equipment Associates, Inc.
Tel (978)282-2919
-



Hall Stevenson <->
Sent by: -


11/15/2004 09:16 AM


Please respond to
Hall Stevenson <->



To
"PTC/USER Model Discussion" <->

cc

Subject
[model] Re: Exploder rules






I'm interpreting the rules since they're not 100% clear. Specifically, I'm
deciding that my reply might be beneficial to the group and hence will
reply to the list.

As already stated, not many people post summaries, so what we end up with
are an archive of messages consisting of lots and lots of questions and
only occassional answers. Why ?? 'cause the answers went directly to the
original poster. In an extreme example, you could have different people
asking the same question one day after the other. If replies to the 1st
question went to the list, persons 2 and 3 wouldn't have needed to repeat
their questions.

I do understand this is a "private" list run by some person or
organization and that they make the rules, but that doesn't mean all of
the rules are perfect and will never change, nor need changing. Since
creating these rules, has "Rick" ever commented on things like this ??

Regards





"Black, Richard A" <->
Sent by: -
11/15/2004 08:42 AM
Please respond to "Black, Richard A"

[jeff4136]

> ... but IF a change is warranted,
> let's get them changed by mutual
> consent and not by mavericks breaking
> them.


Oops, I guess I'm among the transgressors. Sorry, guess I just thought
that since there was a news reader interface it was ok to use it. My vote:
newsgroup format. I simply don't care for email for a number of reasons
and if limited to it will simply scan the group for what I might glean from
it. Have a good one.

[nicfre1]

I will first begin by apologizing for sending this email to everyone, but I
am hoping that this might make a point with several individuals.
1. As long as you have so many individuals using this group, you will never
get everyone to use it in the one way you feel is proper.
2. Summaries are helpful for two reasons :
a. The summary may help someone else wondering about the same question,
regardless of how simple.
b. When you post a summary after you get the answer that works, that
summary to everyone helps stop individuals sending you private emails with
answers you already recieved.
3. I believe in the old adage, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the
kitchen. This is a free service. If you don't like the format or how
individuals are using it you have two choices, with number two being the
preference as far as I am concerned :
a. Create your own forum/user group/chat room/super helpful perfect Pro-E
service, etc. - whatever you want to call it, that you feel is better than
the current setup.
b. Delete you membership to the user group. If it is so utterly useless and
cumbersome like someone basically told me, then you should have no problem
deleting your account. Plain and simple. Unsubsribe is an option. You
are free to use it at any time.
4. It will not help or solve any problem by creating back and forth
arguements, or simply saying that you don't like how things are set up over
and over again.
5. I have more of a problem having to delete this back and forth whining
than I have a problem deleting summaries of simple questions, or even out of
office replies.
6. Mr. Rick Snyder, I appreciate this service, it has helped me many times
as well as co workers and the responses are alot quicker and for the most
part, more helpful than the official Pro-E help service. Please disregard
those that do nothing but complain about this user group. Again, if they
feel the user group is simply unbearable and useless, that is their
perrogative and they should leave.
7. Why don't we stop this thread here and now. He was simply reminding us
what this exploder is/should be used for.


Nick

[dgschaefer]

I have long been a fan of the reply to sender and post a summary method.  It's the most efficient solution.  But, to be honest, it's downfall is that it depends many individuals in a large, diverse group acting the same way.  That's never going to happen.  Some folks will decide to reply to the list regardless and some will ignore the requirement of a summary.  If we could build it into the system, apart from individual decision, (IE force reply to sender and force a summary) it might work.  How do you do that?  If you could, how do you do it without making the system so cumbersome that it drives people away?   Given human nature, the reply to group is probably a better idea, although sending a summary anyway couldn't hurt.

As far as a bulletin board format, there are already several sites like that for Pro/E.  I don't visit any of them.  I think they would be of limited value simply because you have to go there read them.  People would generally only go to ask a question, not to go read questions that they might be able to answer.

I have 'rules' in Outlook XP (2002) that work pretty well for me to filter my exploder mail into folders.  They also delete the majority of 'I'm not home' messages.  Not perfect, but much better than not filtering.

Doug Schaefer

[ptc-2638738]

No one wants the extra email... Everyone would love to have an archive of
questions and ANSWERS. What to do. What to do.

How about we stay with the same system (only respond to the person asking
the question), but the person asking the question is responsible, no
REQUIRED, to submit a summary report including "cut & paste" from the
experts who wrote them. If you don't submit a summary after X numbers of
days (I vote for 3) then you can't submit another question, or your
subscription is temporarily unavailable. I'm not trying to create a
management headache for Rick. So maybe the last part of my suggestion is
too much, or maybe there is a an automated way of doing this. I don't know
but this seems top be the best compromise.

My 2 cents,

Brad

[cfly]

Has no one else completely read the posting that Rick sent out? The one
section that everyone is arguing about isn't even considered a rule; it's
more of a suggestion... notice the bold text below, and how about we put
this thing to rest?

[HarryArcher]

I have a solution to this problem.
I use Microsoft Outlook.
All my Exploder emails go to my delete folder.
I set my delete folder to delete upon closing Microsoft Outlook with verification.
I use the preview pane to see all these exploders.
At the end of the day, I close Outlook and it asks me if I want to delete the files in the deleted folder.
If I finished reviewing them I say yes. Otherwise I say no.
This saves me from deleting them individually and thus saving me much time.


<file: c:\documents=" and=" settings\harry.archer\application=" data\microsoft\signatures\.=" harry_files=" image002.jpg=">

[jschmehl]

I tried to hold back, but it's one of those days....short and sweet:

A reply to all message should appear in your in box as "RE:
(subject)"...see subject line. If you don't want to read it...delete it
and see if a "SUMMARY" comes out. If you do, go ahead and open it. Set
a filter for "RE: (subject)" if it really bothers you that much. Rick
does not charge us to become a member nor do we pay him to maintain the
site. Complain about me for dragging on with the thread, but don't
complain cause you can't delete something you don't want to read. There
is an unsubscribe (sort of like changing the station when there's
something you don't like). Thanks Rick for continued commitment, keep
up the good work!

[unknown1]

Well, I for one think this type of discussion helps things to evolve.

Nobody can begin to thank Rick for keeping this going and I have no idea of
how much of his day this occupies.

I think, however, that all I or anyone else here wants is a place to find
some help and help out when we can. I've said my piece: I prefer to see
replies in the list: That way I don't send an answer to a question that has
been answered nor does the original poster receive 10 replies with the same
suggestion and I DO see all the suggestions made by others, guaranteeing
that I see an answer even if the original poster doesn't post a summary,
which becomes more or less unnecessary.

Most people on the list and participating in this discussion are regular
visitors and not 1-time answer-seekers, so why not set up a poll (the
question can be changed): "Do you want answers to be posted to the list or
to the individual and let the individual post the summary to the list (not a
COPY-PASTE of replies: these suggestions worked, these didn't)?"

Groups on yahoo.com can set up polls and I volunteer to set it up if nobody
else does. One or two suggestions for the question and I think we can agree
that the answers should be limited to:
1. Everyone does as they please
2. Reply to original poster and that person posts a filtered summary with
what worked and what didn't
3. Reply to the list


Now, I don't know what happens on Rick's side of things. Will posting to
the list give him 3 times the work? If that in any way gives him a tougher
job then my vote is changed to number 2, so Rick, hop in with your words
anytime soon 🙂

--
Rui

[ptc-437311]

Not to continue this diatribe, but has anyone else besides me use the MS
Outlook Express for the exploder? I setup a newsgroup (as instructed on the
website) and I get all the exploder email sent to a newsgroup instead of my
personal email address. That way I'm not inundated with emails that I don't
have the time to read, and can check the exploder when ever I have the time.
I've used this technique ever since it became available and it works great.
And in regards to getting responses to me directly on to the group, I'd
rather see it to the group.


--
Steve M. Wilson
Sr. ME
Bivio Networks
Pleasanton, CA

"Black, Richard A" <-> wrote in message

[PeterBrown]

I agree, the Newsreader in Outlook Express is the way to go.... if everyone
used it, no one would be inundated with "Out of Office" replies in 4
different languages every time they posted a question or reply.


On the bright side, I now know what "Abwesenheitznotiz" means. Now if only
I knew how to work that into a conversation.

Regards






"Steve M. Wilson" <swilson@bivio.net> wrote in message news:76518@model...
>
> Not to continue this diatribe, but has anyone else besides me use the MS
> Outlook Express for the exploder? I setup a newsgroup (as instructed on
> the website) and I get all the exploder email sent to a newsgroup instead
> of my personal email address. That way I'm not inundated with emails that
> I don't have the time to read, and can check the exploder when ever I have
> the time. I've used this technique ever since it became available and it
> works great. And in regards to getting responses to me directly on to the
> group, I'd rather see it to the group.
>
>
> --
> Steve M. Wilson
> Sr. ME
> Bivio Networks
> Pleasanton, CA
>
> "Black, Richard A" <-> wrote in message