Pro/E help...yet again.

DeanLong · ‎Dec 12, 2011

I know this may be a bit of a rant, but I strongly believe there is a fundamental lack of attention to a very critical issue all us "Pro/E and Creo"Users continue to face. I felt a post on the CAD forum was appropriate.For me, Igave up on asking for "help" from PTC resourcesover 15 years ago. I still look down at my shoes and shake my head each timeI encounter the lack "Help"within our software.

Look at the attached image and tell me why we continue to accept such unacceptable things like this?

This is not an isolated issue. You can find Help road blocks EVERYWHERE within the Help Center. In many cases we are given directions to a road that no longer exists! in this case, this is"OLD Pro/E" directions.This have been an issue since the very first day I started on Pro/E....that was 1989! My blood pressure just climbed up 50 points.

PTC, why, why, why do we have to live with a software that is NEVER complete or correct? Functioning "Help" is the lifeblood of any software. Do you wonder why Solidworks is eating your lunch? This is but ONE ofmany reasons. What good is all the "New Hotness" if we can't figure out how to use it? Is there a method to this continued madness? Please enlighten us all why this is so.

A (very old and worn out) suggestion: Start spending a healthy portion of everyone's maintenance dollars to make certain the Help Center actually Helps us.

DeanLong · ‎Dec 12, 2011

People....

I have already begun to get responses that I need to be in the Annotate Tab. This, being a Pro/EUser,I know already.....

Please do not miss the point of my previous post. Help needs to be

DonSenchuk · ‎Dec 12, 2011

Great point.

Another place I find something similar is in the message line prompts. Long-time users very often ignore these, but trying to teach new users (or show users a better way of doing things) brings the lack of clear instruction in the message line prompts glaring to life. I know that too many times when a new user has asked me "How would I know to do what you just told me?" or "How did you know to do that?", my only answer is "Experience." Pretty lame, if you ask me.

ptc-593619 · ‎Dec 12, 2011

A great example of just that is blanking a cell border line in a table.
Experienced users know that "query" "Table" opens the "line display"
menu under the "Table" menu. If you didn't know that it'd take you all
day to find it. I'm sure that everyone has their favorite ProE "quirk"!
I particularly like the fact that "Insert Mode" is not under the
"Insert" menu but in "Edit" "Feature Operations". This for WF3 BTW

Richard A. Black

Lead Design Engineer

Eaton Corporation

440 Murray Hill Road

Southern Pines

NC 28387 USA

sneg3691 · ‎Dec 12, 2011

Tis a game folks..PTC is not ignorant..there're wanting to keep you out of
the know how.. keeps you coming back to training classes is the thought
process .tis their bread and butter.

Regards

_____

JimBarrettSmith · ‎Dec 12, 2011

Don

I just took a look at help files in Creo 1.0 M020

The help file looks accurate and the learning connector provides a
tutorial, suggestions for PTCU and topics from the knowledge base.

Hope that helps

Jim

DonSenchuk · ‎Dec 12, 2011

Did you look at Dean's screen capture?

Your post also seems like a "missing the forest for the trees". Per Dean's second post, it's not just about how to make a symbol. It's about how much improvement the "Help" files could stand to see. I simply added on that very often the message line prompts are lacking clear -- or sometimes any -- direction for users to reference.

In Reply to Jim Barrett-Smith:

Don

I just took a look at help files in Creo 1.0 M020

The help file looks accurate and the learning connector provides a
tutorial, suggestions for PTCU and topics from the knowledge base.

Hope that helps

Jim

mreece · ‎Dec 12, 2011

If they only had the training classes I need! This issue is not a Pro/E-Creo issue with bad help. The help in Windchill is just as bad (or worse)! And PTC doesn't have the training classes for me to take!!!

JimBarrettSmith · ‎Dec 12, 2011

Don

The points I took from the post were as follows

1) The help files are not accurate

2) The help files are not simple to understand

3) The help files do not help new users

4) Maintenance money should be spent improving the help content

5) PTC are not being helpful because they want to generate training
revenue

So my post via a screen grab was addressing the points but obviously not
very well so let me have another go

1) The help files are not accurate

(a) The help files look accurate to me based on the example provide
by you, if there are other instances please contact tech support and
file a spr so they can be improved.

2) The help files are not simple to understand

(b) In the learning connector on the right hand side the user is
provided with multiple forms of information to improve the learning
experience

i.
Video tutorial on how to use the functionality and automatically
selected when you pick the command

ii.
Training information available in PTCU

iii.
Topics on the selected command that are available in the knowledge base

3) The help files do not help new users

(c) As above the learning connector is designed to help new and
existing customers - please test the learning connector and provide
feedback

4) Maintenance money should be spent improving the help content

(d) The Learning connector available in Creo 1 M020 is an example of
how PTC is developing new tools to improve the help content and its
delivery

5) PTC are not being helpful because they want to generate training
revenue

(e) Yes we want our users to proficient with the tools hence we are
improving the access to paid and free content.

If I am still missing the point of the post then please let me know

Thanks

Jim

DonSenchuk · ‎Dec 12, 2011

I didn't provide an example.

While I agree with Dean's assessment of the Help files, I only mentioned the message window prompts within Pro/E and their lack of clarity or lack of existence.

Thanks for taking the time to post that information. It's good to see effort is being made to improve in this area (considering the version we run doesn't have anything resembling a "Learning Connector").

I didn't mention anything about maintenance money and what it is spent on.

In Reply to Jim Barrett-Smith:

Don

The points I took from the post were as follows

1) The help files are not accurate

2) The help files are not simple to understand

3) The help files do not help new users

4) Maintenance money should be spent improving the help content

5) PTC are not being helpful because they want to generate training
revenue

So my post via a screen grab was addressing the points but obviously not
very well so let me have another go

1) The help files are not accurate

(a) The help files look accurate to me based on the example provide
by you, if there are other instances please contact tech support and
file a spr so they can be improved.

2) The help files are not simple to understand

(b) In the learning connector on the right hand side the user is
provided with multiple forms of information to improve the learning
experience

i.
Video tutorial on how to use the functionality and automatically
selected when you pick the command

ii.
Training information available in PTCU

iii.
Topics on the selected command that are available in the knowledge base

3) The help files do not help new users

(c) As above the learning connector is designed to help new and
existing customers - please test the learning connector and provide
feedback

4) Maintenance money should be spent improving the help content

(d) The Learning connector available in Creo 1 M020 is an example of
how PTC is developing new tools to improve the help content and its
delivery

5) PTC are not being helpful because they want to generate training
revenue

(e) Yes we want our users to proficient with the tools hence we are
improving the access to paid and free content.

If I am still missing the point of the post then please let me know

Thanks

Jim

davehaigh · ‎Dec 12, 2011

Learning connector is a separate download and install, and least it is in WF4 & WF5.

David Haigh

DeanLong · ‎Dec 12, 2011

I was I with the Maintenence $$ comment. Mine alone.

Jim....thanks for sharing the progress. Also, please don't mis-understand my motivation behind the question/rant this morning. I am a Pro Lifer (still can't speak the word Creo) and I am still all in. I want to use the Best in Class product. We pay the best in class price, as Pro is expensive. All things being equal, Pro is still the king of the hill when it comes to homogenous functionality across the suite. But, and this is the linchpin, when simple documentation and "Ease of Use" info is easy to providebut missing or incomplete....it irks many people. And worse, it is fodder forthe competitor'sargument that PTC products are too cumbersome to learn anduse. We lose market share and potential business due to an easily repaired leak in the proverbial damn.

Dean

bfrandsen · ‎Dec 13, 2011

The Help Center that comes with Creo 1.0 M020 looks exactly like Deans screen shot and not like Jims. So the Help Center in Creo 1.0 M020 is not correct.

Which version is the basis of Jims screen shot? Is the difference because of the Learning Connector?

Bjarne Frandsen

JimBarrettSmith · ‎Dec 13, 2011

Bjarne

Dean's screen shot is from the help content for Pro/Legacy.

My screen shot is from the help content for Detailed Drawing's. I made
the assumption that Dean was trying to create a symbol in Pro/Detail
hence the delta in the screen shots. I have verified the Pro/Legacy
help content and it is incorrect so I will file an SPR so that the
content can be fixed.

As it is possible to define a symbol in Pro/Diagram, Pro/Detail,
Pro/Legacy, Pro/Weld etc searching for "symbol" will provide many
results. I filtered my results by choosing the "Show in Table of
Contents" option which allowed me to view the results by the Detailed
drawing module .

I believe this healthy conversation can now draw to a close. Where PTC
needs to make improvements have been acknowledge and will be reviewed.

On a final note I encourage you all to review the Learning connector as
I am confident PTC have already started making improvements to how help
is provided to the user. The Learning Connector

bfrandsen · ‎Dec 13, 2011

Jim,
thank you for the clarification. I did not hit the "Show in Table of Contents" icon either. Maybe some breadcrumb/tooltip indication of where you are in the help system could minimize these misunderstandings.

BR,
Bjarne

In Reply to Jim Barrett-Smith:

Bjarne

Dean's screen shot is from the help content for Pro/Legacy.

My screen shot is from the help content for Detailed Drawing's. I made
the assumption that Dean was trying to create a symbol in Pro/Detail
hence the delta in the screen shots. I have verified the Pro/Legacy
help content and it is incorrect so I will file an SPR so that the
content can be fixed.

As it is possible to define a symbol in Pro/Diagram, Pro/Detail,
Pro/Legacy, Pro/Weld etc searching for "symbol" will provide many
results. I filtered my results by choosing the "Show in Table of
Contents" option which allowed me to view the results by the Detailed
drawing module .

I believe this healthy conversation can now draw to a close. Where PTC
needs to make improvements have been acknowledge and will be reviewed.

On a final note I encourage you all to review the Learning connector as
I am confident PTC have already started making improvements to how help
is provided to the user. The Learning Connector
http://www.ptc.com/products/ptc-university/learning-connector is
free and provides context-sensitive recommendations for topics,
articles, and videos as you work improving the help content provided to
new and existing users by providing results from PrecisionLMS (eLearning
topics and videos), Technical Support Knowledge Base (Knowledge-based
articles) and the Help Center (Overview, procedural, and example
topics).

Thank you all for your comments and feedback

Jim

BenLoosli · ‎Dec 13, 2011

Using the internet to get to helpful solutions does my company no good as we are in a restricted environment and our work computers have NO internet access.
PTC may think that by hosting the help files on their servers they have found a low cost method of providing help to the users. In my case all the internet help files in the world are useless. Maybe I should get a discount on maintenance since I cannot get access to the help files over the internet and am not getting full value for what is being charged.

Provide accurate help files with the distribution of the software that loads locally would be a step forward.

Thank you,

Ben H. Loosli
USEC, INC.

dgallup · ‎Dec 13, 2011

Learning Connector? Never heard of a learning connector, might be helpful for my new users! So lets go to PTC technical support and look for "learning connector" documents relating to Pro/Engineer in English. Here's what we get, doesn't look like anything useful to me.

In Reply to David Haigh:

Learning connector is a separate download and install, and least it is in WF4 & WF5.

David Haigh
Phone: 925-424-3931
Fax: 925-423-7496
Lawrence Livermore National Lab
7000 East Ave, L-362
Livermore, CA 94550

PTC quality philosophy: We've upped our quality standards. Up yours.

hippe · ‎Dec 13, 2011

Ben,

The Help Files for Creo can be downloaded along with the software on ptc.com. Media can be orderedif desired.

Doug

hippe · ‎Dec 13, 2011

David,

The global search tool on the home page of ptc.com will return information re: the LearningConnector

Doug

BobSchwerdlin · ‎Dec 13, 2011

AMEN !

How true !

davehaigh · ‎Dec 13, 2011

The download for the learning connector is here:

davehaigh · ‎Dec 13, 2011

By the way, this is what the help center looks like after you install the learning connector

[cid:image001.jpg@01CCB96F.604AB940]

The first tab, eLearning will only do you any good if you have a precisionLMS account. The Knowledge Base tab will be of use to anyone on maintenance.

David Haigh

davehaigh · ‎Dec 13, 2011

Being the cyber pack rat that I am, I found the video on how to use the learning connector on my machine and uploaded it to PTCUser. You can download it here. It's a very good video, not sure why ptc doesn't have it on their site any longer.

ShandRonnie · ‎Dec 13, 2011

Search for LearningConnector (with no space in between)
What could be a valid and logical reason for PTC to join 2 separate words and create confusion?
Why is it Creo Elements and not CreoElements?

ptc-593619 · ‎Dec 13, 2011

It'saploybyPTCtodoawaywiththespacebar!

Richard A. Black

Lead Design Engineer

Eaton Corporation

440 Murray Hill Road

Southern Pines

NC 28387 USA

BobSchwerdlin · ‎Dec 13, 2011

Ha !

BrentDrysdale · ‎Dec 13, 2011

Hi Folks,
I recently saw (but can't now find) a modified picture of a keyboard. On
the space bar was written "Space - the final frontier"
As a Trek fan I was impressed. Hope it gives you all a laugh.

I will look at the Learning Connector since though I have been aware of it
I have not tried it. Sounds like I need to and get it running for our
users too.

Regards, Brent Drysdale
Senior Mechanical Designer
Tait Radio Communications
New Zealand
DDI +64 3 358 1093
www.taitradio.com

JimBarrettSmith · ‎Dec 14, 2011

David

Thank you for taking the time to locate this video. The Learning
connector which is available with Creo 1 M020 and what I showed in
screen shot has been improved.

I have attached a quick video (you will require the TSSC codec if it
does not play) of the new Learning Connector - The video does not have
voice over in order to minimize the size of the file.

In the video you will notice that to start with I am not logged into
eLearning so for those of you who do not have eLearning can understand
what you receive free of charge.

There are videos (with voiceover) that explains the functionality.
Where the functionality is not covered by a video there is the knowledge
base information and links to topics in eLearning.

For those of you who do not have an internet connection your
requirements are understood and we are listening.

Further improvements are planned in order to provide as much information
as possible to when you need it.

Thanks

Jim